Shanti Sena part 9

Shanti Sena – part 9

Rainbow John wrote:

> I wonder if that is what happened to that fellow who was found in his tent at the Minnesota National, some years ago. It was said he had been in there for a week.

Actually, he was found lying in the woods. If I remember correctly, the exact cause of death was never established, but the coroner ruled it “natural causes.” There was some question of whether he was a diabetic, but again, if memory serves, that turned out to be unfounded rumor.

Really, folks, this kind of speculation is pointless and creates wild rumors, anxiety, paranoia, and just plain bad PR. I think doing it on publicly on the newsgroup is a really bad idea.

I will repeat what I have said in the past: Shanti Sena matters are best discussed in a non-public forum. Why? Discretion, respect for privacy, rumor control, etc. And remember, there are those who would harm us who follow the net. Why give them ammunition?

I think the broad issues are always deserving of public discussion, but details are not appropriate. If people are concerned about specific Shanti Sena issues or have questions, try emailing Rob or me. One way or the other, we can follow up with folks who have been doing this stuff for years. Yes, we are all Shanti Sena, but some of us are available 24/7 for it and take it as a sacred trust. Rob has already indicated that he is one of those people. So am I.

By the way, the confiscation arguments and the duct tape arguments are absurd. Everyone at the gathering acts as individuals. There is no entity called “Shanti Sena.” Many people act as PeaceKeepers as a way of life wherever they are. There are many people who consider themselves experienced Shanti Sena, and/or part of the Shanti Sena Clan. Most are extremely good at what they do.

A few folks, however, insist on carrying radios and calling themselves Shanti Sena but are a walking disaster, and the rest of us have to deal with the fallout. Other folks are excellent in some areas of Shanti Sena work, but not in others. Some folks do not know their own limits. And everyone who does work at a gathering is prone to burn-out. Ultimately, everyone is human and can make mistakes.

It is essential to remember that Shanti Sena does not function as a lynch mob or a kangaroo court. All true Shanti Sena actions take place either in the moment on the part of individuals to prevent immediate harm to someone or to re-establish safety, peace, and harmony; or in Shanti Sena/CALM councils to problem-solve about people or conditions adversely affecting the health and safety of the camp. Hopefully, the folks who take an interest in doing this on a daily basis are in constant communication with each other.

Anything else is not Shanti Sena, but the actions of loose cannons behaving irresponsibly and sometimes outrageously. These people can claim to be acting as “Shanti Sena” all they want, but that does not make it so. Please let us all remember the distinction. If someone is acting in manner you think is unrighteous, and claiming to be Shanti Sena, speak up and call for an immediate Shanti Sena Council.

In Peace,
Carla

In a message dated 03/02/1999 2:14:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, ca...@efn.org writes:

> Actually, he was found lying in the woods. If I remember correctly, the exact cause of death was never established, but the coroner ruled it “natural causes.” There was some question of whether he was a diabetic, but again, if memory serves, that turned out to be unfounded rumor.
> Really, folks, this kind of speculation is pointless and creates wild rumors, anxiety, paranoia, and just plain bad PR. I think doing it on publicly on the newsgroup is a really bad idea.

This particular issue was never a Shanta Sena situation, just a case of someone finding a body in the woods. It’s all a matter of public record, was even an article in the local paper. It’s not giving anyone an ammunition they don’t already have. Personally, I don’t think it hurts for folks to be reminded that you can die at a gathering just like anywhere else. ------- s

> A few folks, however, insist on carrying radios and calling themselves Shanti Sena but are a walking disaster, and the rest of us have to deal with the fallout.

whoo lord have mercy

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> Shanti Sena matters are best discussed in a non-public forum. Why? Discretion, respect for privacy, rumor control, etc. And remember, there are those who would harm us who follow the net. Why give them ammunition?
> I think the broad issues are always deserving of public discussion, but details are not appropriate.

I don’t know I think that the facts specific facts are way better than the exagerated versions that I am seeing in this thread. I read this post yesterday and slept on it before responding This discusion has occurred on agr before. I think it is appropriate. (even if real bellys DONT use conputers Rob is an alien ringer I am not me and for all anybody knows u r knot u)

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--you posted:

> > A few folks, however, insist on carrying radios and calling themselves Shanti Sena but are a walking disaster, and the rest of us have to deal with the fallout;
> whoo lord have mercy

Yea, SURE, We were so short-handed in bus-village and on the outer trails and springhead, just in firewatch, I was loaning radios and flash-lights to pairs of newbie/veteran last year with a minimum of training just to keep the fires out, with instruction to call back to me camp, if any real hassles popped up, shantisena was much more short-handed. The couple of major actions that should have had some real presence available, everyone was on one of their side bands and unreachable,

The actual presence of “known” folks willing to put in some help was so minimal that few folks on the outer edges got much sleep. While the folks on main site had their secret channels, etc. yea, tell me about it, and folks wonder about the attitudes. When real trouble popped up, there was no one to call on a couple of occasions for backup. So, those of you..........nah.

Who decides who the REAL shantisena are? Firewatch? calm/mash? Sounded rather hierarchical there, chuckle! I know where several of the “old” shantisena came from and .........pm {grumble, grunt, scritch-scratch, toot, rant! .......}

Shanti Sena should most definately be discussed in a public forum - if not here, where? We are NOT a secret society - we are here to maintain peace, and the more people that know about our ways, the better! Love you,

Rich in Spirit

personally I feel that anything that happens at a gathering should be open for public discussion, any and I mean any events that cannot bear the light of day has no place in my world.

Michael Cardinal wrote:

> Yea, SURE, We were so short-handed in bus-village and on the outer trails and springhead, just in firewatch, I was loaning radios and flash-lights to pairs of newbie/veteran last year with a minimum of training just to keep the fires out, with instruction to call back to me camp, if any real hassles popped up, shantisena was much more short-handed. The couple of major actions that should have had some real presence available, everyone was on one of their side bands and unreachable,

Yes, we’ve had some real problems of late with what you are talking about. We need more folks who want to do Shanti Sena, but as Karin pointed out with the San Diego Drum circles, the problem is the ratio of new folks to old folks. New folks do need to find out how it’s done, as well as bringing their own fresh, creative contribution to the mix. Too often, folks just don’t know how to find out who to talk to to get the information and training they need to do really intense Shanti Sena work safely, appropriately, and well. We have a few loose cannons who have gone out and bought radios and get out there and cowboy around. This is not good.

I’m not talking about “real” Shanti Sena as opposed to “bogus” Shanti Sena from any elitist perpsective. I’m talking about the fact that, like in any area, some people should not do Shanti Sena at all, due to lack of common sense, lack of groundedness, etc. Would you want someone who can’t cook or someone with staph doing the cooking? Of course not. Would you want someone who has no medical training of any king treating people in CALM? Of course not.

The problem is that it’s very difficult to tell anyone they shouldn’t be doing something, and impossible to enforce it. All you can do is communicate, communicate, communicate. And some people are not very good at listening.

I agree that the presence of the GMRS radios are hurting our Shanti Sena coordination. What does happen with people who have them is very efficient, but too many people are excluded. I have voiced my opinion to John Buffalo that this amounts to elitism, but the push to using only the GMRS’s for the “real” Shanti Sena is continuing. I guess we’ll have to have a real disaster before folks realize we are asking for problems with two different systems of radio communication. Yes, doling out the GMRS’s to only “approved” people keeps the wing-nuts and the loose cannons from screwing up our serious Shanti Sena communication, and keeps the channels open for real emergencies rather than mindless chatter, but at what price?

And I know that Rob and Hawker and Clearwater will say that they all carry both kinds of radios and that therefore it’s okay. But guys, I know for a fact (I have only a CB) that important matters that need full Shanti Sena participation are not getting put out over the CB’s after you guys confer among yourselves over the GMRS’s. This is a serious hole in the bucket. In my opinion, the system we have now results in the loss of experienced people’s participation, prevents new people’s participation, and creats the appearance of an inner circle. Think about it.

Love and Light,
Carla

At 03:40 PM 3/4/99 , Carla wrote:

>>>>snip<<<<<<<<<

> I agree that the presence of the GMRS radios are hurting our Shanti Sena coordination. What does happen with people who have them is very efficient, but too many people are excluded.

We are not excluding anyone, but is there any reason to put it out on CB if the GMRS carrying folks can deal with it? I think not. The less we spread over the radio the better. Keeps everyone calm.

> I have voiced my opinion to John Buffalo that this amounts to elitism, but the push to using only the GMRS’s for the “real” Shanti Sena is continuing.

You are entitled to buy your own GMRS just like everyone else. The cost about the same as a good CB. You and others bought your own CB why is the GMRS any more different. Ya want in - ya need the toy. No exclusion here it’s just that it’s new so there are not as many radios. Same was true when we first started using CBs. It will get better. We are trying to improve Rainbow technology.. why accept the status quo when we can improve ourselves?

> I guess we’ll have to have a real disaster before folks realize we are asking for problems with two different systems of radio communication.

Either way there is a trade off.

If we don’t have the second radio system then there will also be a potential for real disaster. CALM for one refuses to listen to the idle noise of the CB system. It gets in there way of helping people. If we only had CBs we couldn’t get to CALM as reliably. Also CBs have limited range where the GMRS cover about 50 sq miles with no static, skip, squelch problems, etc. Some folks determined that there were fewer potential problems with GMRS so they went there. I tend to agree with that thinking.

> Yes, doling out the GMRS’s to only “approved” people keeps the wing-nuts and the loose cannons from screwing up our serious Shanti Sena communication, and keeps the channels open for real emergencies rather than mindless chatter, but at what price?

Keeping out the wing nuts was an added bonus. Sooner or later the wing nuts will get the GMRS radios as well (a few already have). And then that will be a moot point. Again it’s not dishing out radios. You can get your own just like the rest of us. Most of the GMRS folks bought there own. Some of us bought extras for the family and those do get dished out as best we can. As more people get there own this will be less of an issue.

> And I know that Rob and Hawker and Clearwater will say that they all carry both kinds of radios and that therefore it’s okay. But guys, I know for a fact (I have only a CB) that important matters that need full Shanti Sena participation are not getting put out over the CB’s after you guys confer among yourselves over the GMRS’s. This is a serious hole in the bucket.

Again if it needs help it gets to Michelle or someone to get out over CB. If it doesn’t require everyone why spread it? One thing we have been trying to accomplish is getting less out over the radios not more. The reason for this is that spreading some of this stuff hurts us more than it helps us. i really don’t want the feds knowing every problem we are having on site (the monitor both radios). Also I have found that the radios help to spread rumors.. I heard xxx on the radio. The story gets changed the rumors fly and we have more problems.

> In my opinion, the system we have now results in the loss of experienced people’s participation, prevents new people’s participation, and creats the appearance of an inner circle. Think about it.

This is true to some extent. I can’t argue with that. Mostly we are going through GMRS growing pains. As more radios get out and we learn how to use this tool better these problems will go away. Again anyone can get there own GMRS you can goto tons of places and get one for about $100 - $200 we like the Maxon GMRS +10 for about $130 with the radio shack alkaline pak.

Mostly I think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I am thoroughly convinced that lives have been saved, kids have been quickly found, problems solved, etc due to the GMRS that could not have happened with the old radio system. I can only imagine what would happen if we only had CBs during the GHB scare. When crisis happens the CBs communication breaks down and is worthless. During this same time the GMRS radios keep calm and focused. We can send an ambulance to the hospital and keep in full contact with CALM the whole way. The CBs could never do that. Remember the coordination problems when we had to meet FS ambulances half way in Oregon? Lives could have been at stake. If the person had a GMRS this would not have been a problem. While then that part wasn’t worked out, now it is.

Agreeing to Disagree

Hawker

P.S. Hey folks remember to switch to using gath...@conf.welcomehome.org, not gath...@cygnus.com for all AGR posts.
P.P.S. The 1998 Arizona Gathering CD MP3 music recordings can be found at
ftp://ftp.xichron.com/xfer/Music_from_the_Campfires.html
Info on obtaining this CD can be found by e-mailing me at Hawker@Connriver.net
(Note CD on temporary hold till Mid March. As of 2/1/99 was 2/3 done re-mastering)

At 05:44 AM 3/4/99 , Michael Cardinal wrote:

> While the folkson main site had their secret channels, etc. yea, tell me about it, and folks wonder about the attitudes. When real trouble popped up, there was no one to call on a couple of occasions for backup. So, those of you
> ..........nah.
> Who decides who the REAL shantisena are? Firewatch? calm/mash? Sounded rather hierarchical there, chuckle! I know where several of the “old” shantisena came from and .........pm {grumble, grunt, scritch-scratch, toot, rant! .......}

O.K. let’s talk about these so called “secret” channels.

Let me spill the whole story of what they are and where they came from so that there may be less tension about the whole thing. If you just want to know WHAT they are skip the first few paragraphs as they are only hipstory. B4 my Rainbow time the family started using CB radios as a way to keep in contact for health and welfare situations. The primary purpose was for CALM emergencies, lost kids, OD’d hippies, Supply etc.

This worked good for a number of years (MN,VT,CO,AL). After a while every hippy with a CB got into the act. Now the airwaves were so cluttered with folks screaming, passing we love you messages, six ups and parking lot noise (as a large percentage of folks in BV have CBs and were on them). Add to this the technical problems of CBs (skip, poor range, big antennas, battery eaters etc) and we starting having problems.

While Rainbow may have no leaders we do have people we resect as experts in certain circumstances. I respect and often call on Amazing Dave in sensitive Shanta Sena issues, There are may CALM folks we trust etc. What was happening is that these important people were turning off there radios as they were to busy with there movie to weed through all the chatter. When a major incident happened often the radio system fell apart as there were to many people talking trying to get involved such that the people there could not get there important information out.

Then the fire of Wyoming happened. During this fire extensive use of Ham Radio 2 Meter bands were used to keep clear of the chatter on CB and communicate with the planes etc. So armed with this experience many regular Shanta Sena came to New Mexico wanting to come up with a new system. Clearwater, Rob, Alex, Stuart, and myself conducted extensive testing of radio systems and frequencies to determine what would be best. We were surprised at how well UHF worked (we were leaning to VHF due to vegetation issues). Since GMRS seemed like a good emerging technology with easy to get and cheap radios (we can all thank Radio Scrap for killing that one with FRS) we went to GMRS which resides in the 462-467Mhz region. We picked the most common frequency as the calling frequency so it would be easier to get on. Stuart came up with the initial seed money for radios and we started out on the new radio venture.

Eventually we get to today. We have a small radio network of about 50 radios and a repeater system to improve range. The system is not intended to be secret or exclusive. It is simply a system for people who want to deal with certain issues without the CB noise. The GMRS system is exclusively for health, safety, welfare, and emergency situation. The point is to keep the rest of the issues off of it so that medical folks etc can keep monitoring. That is why there was no fire watch going on on GMRS, fire watch while important is a different issues. The heavy traffic it created would have killed GMRS such that if there was a medical emergency we would not be able to reach those folks. The system is MUCH more reliable than the CB. Last year with a simple Magnet mount roof antenna Stuart was able to reach me clearly from a hand held radio all the way into town. Try that with CBs.

I most like what Tools told me last year. Pointing to his GMRS radio (or Gimmy as SP calls it) he said “I like these new radios, they don’t talk much, but when they do it is something important” Many of us feel the need to be there to help when important issues come up, but we don’t want to have our fun spoiled by having to listen to 24 hours of talk and noise on the radios. That is why we went to this system.

The system has a limited number of radios as folks are not buying there own radios as we expected. Most of the radios have come from the donations of about 4 or 5 folks. It is not exclusive.. Get a radio yourself and get in.. same as CB.

FYI we always have managed to keep a dispatcher listening to both radio systems as well as a few ground folks who listen to both. If you need to reach CALM or something holler for someone to pass the message and CALM can “meet” you on CB or something.

As for claims of me running this system. Unfortunately to some extent this is true. Designing, building, tuning, maintaining the Repeater and all the old radios is a technical challenge. There are few rainbows with this kind of technical knowledge and equipment. In fact Clearwater who does CB is learning but most of it is over his head. Only two folks have asked about helping and none have put there “money where there mouth is”. Believe me there are other things I would rather be doing. The system needs improvements like cross-banding (the ability for the CBs to talk directly to the GMRS radios) Auto patch (the ability to make a phone call from the Radios) Remote monitoring

(Reporting repeater site conditions like battery charging so that I don’t have to climb up there each day). Not to mention the pile of dead radios I have that need fixing. But I have other interest as well and haven’t gotten to these things. I would love to hand this off and dis-asociate myself with this but no one has stepped up to take my place. When they do I will gladly step down.

Hope this clear up the “Secret Channel” mystery

Hawker

QSY to Work from my Home QTH - 10-4.

thank you Hawker, your information may clear up an awful lot of questions and may well quell a few paranoia’s

Wodan Deius..

Thank you Hawker, for your outstanding efforts at making the radios work. There definitely needs to be an “off” channel where it’s for certain business only, and giving it out to one and all to use would defeat the purpose, just as it did with the CB’s. If those who have a bone to pick about it are willing to put in the work and money, hand ‘em a radio, eh? Definitely put your money and your time where your mouth is. Lovin’ you Hawker, and all of those hard workers who pull it all together.

Peace,
Crystalhawk

In article <001601be662b$f83b1100$3f99dad1.alt.gathering.rainbow@computer>, gath...@cygnus.com wrote:

> > A few folks, however, insist on carrying radios and calling themselves Shanti Sena but are a walking disaster, and the rest of us have to deal with the fallout.
> whoo lord have mercy

Yea this is osee I wrote :”whoo lord have mercy” I am having trouble on this thread deciding who said what with all the >‘s and >>‘s and >>>‘s and >>>>‘s

I read the “walking disaster snipet” and I was like speachless This post fromMichael is what I think two but couldn’t get down in words

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> The system has a limited number of radios as folks are not buying there own > radios as we expected. Most of the radios have come from the donations of about 4 or 5 folks. It is not exclusive.. Get a radio yourself and get in.. same as CB.

I like this Where can a buy one and how much.

I promise I won’t ratchet jaw.

BTW I have just been gifted with this 12 volt gizmo It has two antenae and hooks up to a phone line one end and on the other end is a phone that allows a belly to make phone calls five miles away. it opperates in line of sight and comes with a license. You can plug a modem into it and all I have to do is climb round the Kooteney mountains and take it down when the snow thaws. I would like to be the first hippy to be online in the parking lot. Whadja thinko that?

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At 12:37 AM 3/5/99 , you wrote:

> I like this Where can a buy one and how much.I promise I won’t ratchet jaw.

Well what you need is any GMRS radio.
Used to be you could get these at Radio Shack, Lowes, K-mart, Wal Mart etc
Now they only have FRS which won’t work.

Check out places that sell commercial radios, also sporting companies, music equipment show suppliers and security companies.

Rob may know who has the best deal around now. Old UHF ham radios can also be converted to work.

What you need is any GMRS radio that can handle 462.55 Mhz.

In order to use the repeater for better range it must be repeater capable (if not you get site communication only).

A repeater capable radio transmits on 467.55Mhz and receives on 462.55Mhz.

The best radio for the $$$ we have found is the Maxon GMRS 10+2.

It is 10 channels repeater capable. It comes with a rechargeable battery which is a pain to recharge in the woods. Radio Shack has an adapter pak that fits that radio that takes Alkline batteries.

> BTW I have just been gifted with this 12 volt gizmo It has two antenae and hooks up to a phone line one end and on the other end is a phone that allows a belly to make phone calls five miles away. it opperates in line of sight and comes with a license. You can plug a modem into it and all I have to do is climb round the Kooteney mountains and take it down when the snow thaws. I would like to be the first hippy to be online in the parking lot. Whadja thinko that?

Interesting.. tell more.. what is it.. what freq does it transmit on.

Hawker

oli...@thequest.net wrote:

> > personally I feel that anything that happens at a gathering should be open for public discussion, any and I mean any events that cannot bear the light of day has no place in my world.

I think you mistake my meaning. I am not advocating secrecy, but privacy and discretion. There is a big difference. There is a big difference between discussing details of Shanti Sena events in the open on the land, and discussing those same details on the internet.

I just want people to think about it.

> Interesting.. tell more.. what is it.. what freq does it transmit on.
> Hawker

beats me tell you more when I get my hands on the hardware The fellow who used it tells me he paid $2500 maybe ten years ago when he had no electricity no phone lines and a direct transmission shot across lake roosevelt I have made phone calls on it it looks like a regular cordless phone except where the antenna would be there is coax cable going to a tranciever which in turn is hooked to a car battery and a roof mounted antenna I have never seen the end that plugs into the telephone company. The way it is snowing in Washington I might have to wait for a glacier to deliver it to sea level after the ice age is over.

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Willow wrote:

> Ho! Carla is completly right. Do we really want all the juciy Shanti Sena and C.A.L.M. bus. broadcasted in public?

Ho! I happen to believe that if it shouldn’t be discussed openly than we really need to think about whether or not it belongs in our world, we only hide that which shames us. and the very notion that there might be that which we have something that we fear to discuss openly would attract the eyes of l.e.o. like ants to honey, besides this is a news group, if someone wants dirt they can upload it themselves and point at it at will

this is not “us and them” . We are all people in all walks of life.

Wodan Dieus

wodan...@thequest.net wrote:

> Ho! I happen to believe that if it shouldn’t be discussed openly than we really need to think about whether or not it belongs in our world, we only hide that which shames us.

I dunno, kind of makes one wonder if maybe there should be some rules for what should be reported on the radio. Should gossip be nixed? I remember a teacher at school saying that one of the most dangerous of horse people are those who are new to the horse thing. They call the vet at the drop of a hoof. Some things like health issues and comments designed to solve certain issues should be discussed. However, some topics add too much fatwood to the forge, and therefore should be discussed via email or ICQ.

johnny

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Hi all,

I have been reading, with interest, all of the postings since I returned from my first gathering on June 30th. I was only able to attend for 4 days but came away with many wonderful memories. It was a time of further bonding with my daughter as well as a time to meet many of her friends from the family. It seems, from the posts, that those attending their first Welcome Home had a wonderful time, despite the mud, the rain, the wet clothes and sleeping bags, the heat and humidity , the long walks etc. (Crystalhawk, I loved your diary entries!!) It also seems that some of those who have attended more gatherings that us newbies were less happy and content with this family reunion. I believe that you receive back from a situation with family and friends only as much as you are willing to put in. If you expect too much, chances are you are going to be disappointed.

Yes, there were problems but wherever there is a community of 2,000 to 20,000 you will always have happy events as well as the sad ones or even violent ones. There will be those who get involved and expect nothing in return. There will be those who sit back and expect others to do everything for them. There will be those who fail to take their medication and therefore act violently. There will be those who accept everyone around them and those who only accept those who are like them. There will be those who drink too much and get aggressive. There will be those who feel they have to rob others or attack others. There will be the accidents, the illnesses, and yes, even the tragedy of death. I was sad to hear about Felipe’s snake bite and of the passing of SunBear. I didn’t have the opportunity to meet either of them but I understand that they both have had a great impact on the Rainbow Family. I trust that Felipe will continue to heal and will attend next year’s Gathering. I know that SunBear will be missed but remembered with love and happy memories.

While at the Gathering, I plugged into Info with my daughter. If you want to be at the hub of the Gathering, that is certainly the place to be. We witnessed many things while I was there. We dealt with missing children, missing parents, missing and stolen dogs, runaway children, stolen items, etc. We also were able to help reunite parents and children, owners and pets. I also viewed a couple of Shanta Sena movies up close and personal--one at Info and one at Bliss. I wasn’t involved--just a witness. Thanks to Hawker and Rob and their quick, quiet, and peaceful intervention, these problems were dealt with. Perhaps the Pennsylvania Highway Patrol as well as many of our local police departments could take lessons from these brothers.

I want to thank those I met for their smiles, their hugs, their greetings of Welcome Home, their offers of help and their love. I met so many wonderful brothers and sisters--Rob and Hawker, Energy, Mike, Ellen and Nick at Musical Veggie, Snow, Barry, Scott, Dan, Michael John, & Catherine at Info, Roberto at Sun Dog, Pieman, Mink and his Disco Ball, Jai, Gary at Bliss, the brothers at Monteray Mud, my fellow Ohioans at OM Valley, Moishe at Jerusalem, and so many others whose names I can’t remember. As for the food--I am not a vegetarian but I don’t think I have ever tasted better food and it was plentiful while I was there. Yes, I dreaded wading through the mud and yuck to get from my tent in the suburbs to Info and back. I didn’t particularily enjoy the wet feet, clothes, and tent but it seems that the bad memories always fade so much faster than the happy memories---and I do have many happy memories of my first gathering--I hope it won’t be my last.

Love to all,
Karen’s Mom

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In article <7mqboc$eu1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, cnr...@my-deja.com wrote:

> I have been reading, with interest, all of the postings since I returned from my first gathering on June 30th. I was only able to attend for 4 days but came away with many wonderful memories. It was a time of further bonding with my daughter as well as a time to meet many of her friends from the family.

right on, right on, right on

(((((((((((((((Karen’sMom))))))))))))))))

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> I met so many wonderful brothers and sisters--Rob and Hawker, Energy, Mike, Ellen and Nick at Musical Veggie, Snow, Barry, Scott, Dan, Michael John, & Catherine at Info, Roberto at Sun Dog, Pieman, Mink and his Disco Ball, Jai, Gary at Bliss, the brothers at Monteray Mud, my fellow Ohioans at OM Valley, Moishe at Jerusalem, and so many others whose names I can’t remember.

Moishe deserves special mention. A warm and hugging man, heart of hopeful dreams and much spirit of Family.

I met him for the first time this Gathering, but his energy still shines in my heart.

Karen’s Mom -

••~ ~•• ~~.•´¯`•• ~ ~~• ~~.•´¯`•• ~
••~ ~•• ~ .•´¯`••~ ~ ~.•´¯`~•••~~.•´¯`•• ~

OH! HO! Indeed! Shanti sena is very very good when it’s good! And these guys as are other shanti sena on this newsgroup very very good almost everytime to the plate! “To protect and serve!” LEOs certainly could take a page! Miranda, Raven

In article <7mqboc$eu1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, cnr...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have been reading, with interest, all of the postings since I returned from my first gathering on June 30th. I was only able to attend for 4 days but came away with many wonderful emories. It was a time of further bonding with my daughter as well as a time to meet many of her friends from the family.

AMEN!

mamaturtle

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

> There will be those who fail to take their medication and therefore act violently.

Had one of these in bus village swipe my lantern then get violent. Finally got his medicine and mellowed for the rest of the time. Good writing. Mic

Mic

Give the gift of life.
Be an organ donor.
Tell your kin.

At 12:41 PM 7/17/99 , “Karens Mom” you wrote:

> It also seems that some of those who have attended more gatherings that us newbies were less happy and content with this family reunion.

Let’s see here.. We have “Karen’s Mom” and in past years “Karen’s Boyfriend” but seems no “Karen Relation” seems to get there own identity..........hummmm......

Anyway I wanted to comment on your above statement. Sure there were problems this year... and lots of complaining from those who have been to several gatherings. But then again we seem to complain equally every year. Seems no gathering can live up to our idealized memory of a past gathering. For me the ideal gathering was Vermont in 91. Even though this wasn’t my first (or near it) gathering it was the first time I felt fully plugged in to the energy and runnings of a gathering. I’m sure it wasn’t a perfect gathering.. but for my head space then it was, so it has been the gathering from which I judge all others. Seems time distorts all memories making the past seem better than it really was. I think many folks think early gatherings are so much better as they were more magical to them then as they were new discovery. Now they are just old hat. So we do what humans do.. we bitch.

Sure there were problems but then there were wonders as well. It certainly was a gathering of plenty food wise. We ate more and better than average. It was also a VERY peaceful gathering. Being more split up made things calmer. Less crazy incidents and more relaxed camps...

i guess what I am trying to say to the newbies is please ignore our bitching.. it was a great gathering. We bitch every year. No gathering seems to be able to live up to our distorted memories. I’m sure this was a fantastic gathering and will remain wonderful and special to you no matter how many more you attend. This gathering will not seem “lame” in future years.. We “more experienced” gatherers need to be told to sit down and shut up from time to time.. this is one appropriate place to do so.

Hawker

P.S. Hey folks remember to switch to using gath...@conf.welcomehome.org, not gath...@cygnus.com for all AGR posts.
P.P.S. The 1998 Arizona Gathering music recordings in MP3 flavor and CD info may be found at....
tp://ftp.xichron.com/xfer/Music_from_the_Campfires.html
Info on obtaining this CD can be found by e-mailing me at Hawker@Connriver.net

Karen’s Mom,

Well, first off, I would love to address you by your given name, since my own mother has lectured me since the gathering after I introduced her to everyone as my mom (her name is Valorie “Windwise”). Everyone knew her as Crystalhawk’s Mom, and after being Strider’s Mom for many years, she felt she’s earned the right to being called by her *own* name, not as an association to someone else. So, if you feel as she does, please tell us your name of choice, and so be it.

Thanks for sharing your gathering experience. I also wanted to let you know that I’m in Ohio, along with the rest of my tribe, and if you would like to come to a potluck or such and meet the rest of NEON, please let me know, and I’ll include you in the mailings. Hope to see you at many more gatherings!

Peace,
Crystalhawk

In article <4.2.0.58.19990718172519.00a3ce80.alt.gathering.rainbow@mailserver.segnet.com>, Haw...@connriver.net (Hawker) writes:

> Seems no gathering can live up to our idealized memory of a past gathering. For me the ideal gathering was Vermont in 91. Even though this wasn’t my first (or near it)

Ugh! Just proves your point; we all see the Gatherings differently (both in our own memories and at the time) North Carolina was my all time favorite, in spite of the Shiggella. Go figure.

Yep, it’s just hot air. In spite of the rhetoric here and elsewhere the Gatherings still got that old time magic.

Montana Crystal

> i guess what I am trying to say to the newbies is please ignore our bitching.. it was a great gathering. We bitch every year. No gathering seems to be able to live up to our distorted memories. I’m sure this was a fantastic gathering and will remain wonderful and special to you no matter how many more you attend. This gathering will not seem “lame” in future years.. We “more experienced” gatherers need to be told to sit down and shut up from time to time.. this is one appropriate place to do so.
> Hawker

While I have actually only been to one gathering, and at that a regional in Florida, I don’t think that anyone could diminish my love for gatherings since I have attended one. I regret not being able to attend the national; I wish I could have been there, but babylon has its ways.

To any newbies who wish to learn what a gathering is like, I would say to disregard most of what is said about it and just go. More than likely you will enjoy it as much as I did.

Light, Peace, & LovenHugs;

JAYBIRD

A True Free Spirit of the Rainbow Nation

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<<<Sniped>>>

> We “more experienced” gatherers need to be told to sit down and shut up from time to time.. this is one appropriate place to do so.
> Hawker

Hawker- Sit down and shut up. Though I’m almost as experienced as you are, (you’ve got one year one me) I thought the world of this gathering.. Sure, there was mud, and sure, there was rain. But on a better note, I didn’t get the shits and I got to see all the people I love to death and back
ily
ariel

<arin...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7n657l$gr8$1@nnrp1.deja.com...

> Hawker- Sit down and shut up. Though I’m almost as experienced as you are, (you’ve got one year one me) I thought the world of this gathering.. Sure, there was mud, and sure, there was rain. But on a better note, I didn’t get the shits and I got to see all the people I love to death and back

I got time on both of you, and say everyone has a right to bitch, just like everyone has the right to get up and walk away when they don’t want to listen to it anymore. AGR ain’t the gather, besides, here folks have something that they don’t at gather, the ability to click past.=)

At 12:04 AM 7/22/99 , you wrote:

> Hawker- Sit down and shut up. Though I'm almost as experienced as you are, (you've got one year one me) I thought the world of this gathering..

i agree.

Not sure how much of the post that statement came from you read.

Seems I posted that a while ago then some of it resurfaced in a post someone else made. I agree it was a fine gathering. I to stayed healthier than usual, ate plenty of great food (i often am hungry) and found it to be a VERY peaceful gathering. since it was so spread out it wasn’t as crazy. In short I agree with you. I could nit-pick at some of the problems, but we have problems every year.

My post was to comment on why the newbies had such a good time yet the “experienced gatherers” seemed to think this was an awful gathering (even though I thought it was a high gathering). Some of the first timers were wondering how this could be.. was it really that much worse than normal. I was trying to say no this was a fine gathering.. we just distort the past with our memories. the past always looks better in reverse.

Hawker

P.S. Hey folks remember to switch to using gath...@conf.welcomehome.org, not gath...@cygnus.com for all AGR posts.
P.P.S. The 1998 Arizona Gathering music recordings in MP3 flavor and CD info may be found at....
ftp://ftp.xichron.com/xfer/Music_from_the_Campfires.html
Info on obtaining this CD can be found by e-mailing me at Hawker@Connriver.net

> i agree.
> Not sure how much of the post that statement came from you read. Seems I posted that a while ago then some of it resurfaced in a post someone else made.

It must have been that way, cause it seemed to me like you were unhappy with this one.

> I agree it was a fine gathering. I to stayed healthier than usual, ate plenty of great food (i often am hungry)

I dont often find myself hungry, mainly because this gathering seemed very plentiful and the last time I went was when I was still a kid, so I could cut the lines and eat

Ariel

Google Advanced Group Search can be accessed by first calling up a group name in Google Groups (alt.gathering.rainbow is at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.gathering.rainbow) and then clicking on the little black arrowhead inside the search window at the top of the page – at the extreme right, just to the left of the blue magnifying glass search button).

Not all posts can be found in Google’s archive; posters had the option of putting “X-No-Archive” in their headers, and some other posts are apparently completely lost for other reasons. Using their search engine is also hit and miss; I sometimes had to try several combinations of words to find some posts. The originals of all of these posts can most easily be found by enclosing the thread name in quotation marks in the Subject: box.

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