Shanti Sena part 6

Shanti Sena – part 6

(an email sent to the Rainbow Guide focalizers) -BB

hello family :)
my name is janie frame, i am requesting a copy of the guide or any numbers which i can reach family for the purpose of organizing a council. i am organizing this council because i am the daughter and witness of the man shot by a-camp at the shawnee ntl forest. I need contact info as soon as you can manage. Here is my story i posted on facebook and hopefully some forums soon explaining the truth about what happened, and it is horrible. also i have pictures on my facebook, if you can help me in any way to get ahold of as mjuch family as possible i appreciate it so much.

please reply to
sunki...@hotmail.com that is also my facebook email

To all my rainbow family
If you didnt hear about the shooting at the Shawnee gathering on October 9th, 3:45 AM. My names janie my dad was the one shot, and i was there for the whole thing. copy and paste this wherever you want this is the true story straight up not from a-camp. We had a little camper in bus village and a little fire outside where people were hanging out drinking, we went to bed and let the fire burn so people could still hang out, at about 3:30 they were really loud and we went outside and asked them to be quieter and they said “well be gone in a minute” we went to bed they woke us up again so we asked them this time to please leave and they told us to go “get a fucking hotel room” so I got my water jug and poured it on the fire and told them to go back to their camp because this was our camp and my dad was sick and needed his sleep, then there was a verbal fight between my dad and somebody my dad pushed him and we went in our camper and locked the door, they left back to a camp and retured with a total of maybe 10 or 15 people and one girl was banging on the door and i got a tomahawk and stood at the door and told her if she came in my house i could hurt her if i wanted to. she tried to force herself in, i kicked her and shut the door again and told them all to leave again. then they smashed our back window and our two side windows and said they were coming in and going to kill us, thats when my dad loaded his gun we had for protection from mountain lions or bears because we travel. we had it not just to “bring to rainbow”, it was a world war 2 mosin nagante 38 caliber extremely powerful rifle. so my dad went outside and shot a round in the air since we were threatened to be killed. 10 people jumped my dad and were fighting over the gun i was hitting the guy wrestling with my dad in the back with a tomahawk very hard, a man with a blond gaotee mustache and ponytail, very skinny, got the gun from my dad and pointed it at his heart, my dad put his hands up and said ‘please dont kill me’ so he pointed it at his knee and fired it went in one leg out the other and through the other leg, and he said with the most cold hearted voice i ever heard, ‘there aint no fucking guns in my woods motherfucker’ and they took the gun and while my dad was bleeding to death they were laughing saying shanti-sina and i was screaming help no one was coming finally the a campers left and i was still screaming when finally a guy from not a fucking kitchen came thank god and drove my dad to the emergency room. The gun, is a very very powerful gun. my dads leg was just, well it looked like someting took a huge bite out of it not just a bullet hole. also i have a one year old son whos very close to his grandpa, i cant say just how angry i am especially since the cops didnt hardly do shit and never found the guy. after we left a camp smashed the rest of our windows and windshield and stole all of our food my clothes my keyboard everything i had and destroyed my home. now my dads in the hospital and wont walk for some months he doesnt have any insurance but thankfully its a religious hospital and they’re going to help him. but i dont know what were going to do after this. Rainbow needs to council about this whole a camp bullshit, if we let them do this to us then rainbow cant go on as a peaceful community, weve tried banishing them to the outside but they still are violent people and not supposed to come in to other camps especially drunk which they all were. all week before this i heard about them beating up random people passing through one girl i met had a black eye and said she didnt do anything but say hi. why the hell are we still letting them be at rainbow? why are we afraid of them and let them try and run things? we need to council anybody who wants to come email me and ill try and organize something close to my hometown in southern indiana it could be in a surrounding state depending on the circumstances. lovin you guys dont beleive rumors this is what happened. ill put pics in an album warning some show blood.

I was literally moments away from posting about this to ask what happened. Here is a link to a news story.

http://www.dailyregister.com/news/police_and_fire/x710519893/Police-investigate-shooting-incident-at-Rainbow-campground

> Rainbow needs to council about this whole a camp bullshit, if we let them do this to us then rainbow cant go on as a peaceful community, weve tried banishing them to the outside but they still are violent people

This is a slippery slope which makes me nervous. I have empathy and sadness for the victims of this incident, but it is wrong and prejudiced to blanket all of A-Camp with the stigma of the individual people that were involved in the shooting. It is as dangerous as any statement that begins, “All rainbows are...” Some A-Campers are violent. Some are not. Some Rainbows are bliss ninnies. Some are not. Persecuting all of A-Camp is witch-hunterish.

That being said, I don’t want anyone to think I am rushing to the defense of a-camp at the expense of Janie and her father. This was a travesty and an atrocity, and a council certainly should be called, along with whatever other measures are deemed appropriate. I am so sad for all those involved, and for the community that will have to bear the wound from this crime against Janie, her father, and the notion of a peaceful community

On Oct 11, 4:49 pm, Finch <atombau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a slippery slope which makes me nervous. I have empathy and sadness for the victims of this incident, but it is wrong and prejudiced to blanket all of A-Camp with the stigma of the individual people that were involved in the shooting.

True... I have seen a lot of bullshit at A-camp myself. In New Mexico 1995 a friend of mine had a knife put to his throat and was robbed. Lots of shovels thru windshields etc. This type of behavior is nothing new to rainbow. Someone got stabbed in NM 09 (not by an A-camper)

We always try to stay clear of them and even try to time our arrival to about 7 am... seems like most of the hell raisers have passed out by then.

This whole shooting thing is a shock and it’s extremely unfortunate. Not just the shooting but the totally ignorant destruction of the motor home and thefts.

RiverMan <caru...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This whole shooting thing is a shock and it’s extremely unfortunate. Not just the shooting but the totally ignorant destruction of the motor home and thefts.

This shows one of the main problems with carrying a gun to defend yourself: someone might be able to take the gun away from you and use it on you.

I’ve never packed heat at a gathering and have been able to survive 23 years of them. (And I was at a gun incident at one in New Mexico in ‘95.)

http://www.bliss-fire.com

hello, i sent the email
the email address is not sunkist1_ its sunkist1122 @ hotmail.com
love you guys

On Oct 11, 7:27 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> This shows one of the main problems with carrying a gun to defend yourself: someone might be able to take the gun away from you and use it on you.

as i mentioned in my explanation of the event, we had it for possible animal attacks in the wilderness in the west where we were headed and never expected intended or ever would use it for a person, which is why he shot it in the air he had every opportunity to shoot the a campers but did not and thats why this happened. we moved out of our apartment to travel and the gun was one of our possesions (an expensive one) which we werent going to just throw away. also we had it legally registered and all that

janie <sunki...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hello, i sent the email
> the email address is not sunkist1_ its sunkist1122 @ hotmail.com
> love you guys

Google might disguise the address again. It’s “sunkist” and “1122” (all as one word) and @ and hotmail.com

-BB

http://www.bliss-fire.com

On Oct 11, 4:18 pm, RiverMan <scarumcr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> True... I have seen a lot of bullshit at A-camp myself. In New Mexico 1995 a friend of mine had a knife put to his throat and was robbed. Lots of shovels thru windshields etc. This type of behavior is nothing new to rainbow. Someone got stabbed in NM 09 (not by an A-camper)

rainbow gatherings have violence at them? nope it never happens! its always peaceful! i kinda remember a lot of tires and wheels being missing and a few tanks emptied and a few motorhomes and buses broken into, but it must have happened in a city somewhere.

On Oct 11, 6:27 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> I've never packed heat at a gathering and have been able to survive 23 years of them. (And I was at a gun incident at one in New Mexico in '95.)

I agree about the guns at the gathering thing. He should have never brandished the gun in the first place. Thats the last thing you should do to a buch of drunk a-campers

On Oct 11, 5:34 pm, RiverMan <carumcr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree about the guns at the gathering thing.

Feral swine will eat you if you don’t stop ‘em. I have no objection to guns kept in safe places, but I don’t ever want to see them either…

> He should have never brandished the gun in the first place. Thats the last thing you should do to a buch of drunk a-campers

I agree to that part whole heartedly!

On Oct 11, 4:27 pm, Butterfly Bill <arfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> I've never packed heat at a gathering and have been able to survive 23 years of them. (And I was at a gun incident at one in New Mexico in '95.)

so was I

On Oct 11, 6:33 pm, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> > He should have never brandished the gun in the first place. Thats the last thing you should do to a buch of drunk a-campers
> I agree to that part whole heartedly!
> Feral swine will eat you if you don’t stop ‘em.

so will a camp pigs....

On Oct 11, 8:34 pm, RiverMan <scarumcr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree about the guns at the gathering thing. He should have never brandished the gun in the first place. Thats the last thing you should do to a buch of drunk a-campers

ok...
as i said before, we moved out of our apartment and into a camper to travel to the west, we werent going to throw away our expensive gun we planned to use for the possibility of animal attacks. I am offended that the only thing you have to say is “you shouldnt have had a gun” what about the people who destroyed my home? threatened to kill us prior to the gun and tried to? how about when they danced around my dad bleeding to death laughing? and all you have to say is, “you shouldnt have...” shame on you.

everything happened so fast. we panicked. we were in a camper surrounded by 15 people breaking our windows with knives and i thought they were going to set it on fire. he didnt even try to shoot anyone he shot it in the air. what do you expect a guy to do what if your daughter was in danger? think about THAT

also the only reason i am all over the internet with this is i am trying to get a council together... anyone who wants to help or know anyone who might please spread the word, im done with all the negativity against me and not the others.

On Oct 11, 5:49 pm, Finch <atombau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> sadness for the victims of this incident, but it is wrong and prejudiced to blanket all of A-Camp with the stigma of the individual people that were involved in the shooting.

A-camp is a powder keg constantly on the edge of violence that needs just a spark to set off an explosion. Sparks are always generated withing that group.

Anyone can call anything a rainbow gathering, that doesn’t make it a rainbow gathering. A-camp gatherings are not rainbow gatherings. If a person is going to hang out with alcoholic thugs they should be aware that its impossible for other people to protect them and the cops will not be there to protect them. A-camp can only be moderated if they are a distinct minority at a gathering.

Shawnee has long had the reputation of being an A-camp gathering, that’s why I never went there. If the majority of people you see at a gathering are drunks you’re not at a rainbow gathering, you’re at an A- camp gathering. Its unfortunate that this incident happened but if you can’t find a place to set up your camp away from the alcoholic thugs with lots of peaceful people around you, many more peaceful people than the alcoholics, you’re not at a rainbow gathering and if you’re not capable of or don’t want to deal with drunken thugs you should gtfo of the A-camp gathering you stumbled into mistakenly thinking you were going to a rainbow gathering.

janie <sunki...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am offended that the only thing you have to say is “you shouldnt have had a gun” what about the people who destroyed my home? threatened to kill us prior to the gun and tried to? how about when they danced around my dad bleeding to death laughing? and all you have to say is, “you shouldnt have...” shame on you.

None of us in any way condone the actions of the people who attacked you, nor think they are justified because your man pulled out a gun. I am just stating some common causes and effects, and how someone can not make those causes. They committed a criminal act, and the forces behind the law that is intended to stop such acts should be used against them. Even if the police who came didn’t want to help, you should still seek the aid of the courts.

I have never owned a gun, but I have heard many gun owners say, “don’t show a gun at someone unless you are prepared to pull the trigger if you find you have to.” If you are bluffing by shooting it off, bear in mind that someone may call your bluff. Humans aren’t like wild animals; they won’t always be scared off by the loud noise.

If there were people around my camper trying to trash it, I would start up the camper’s engine and drive it the hell out of there and not care if I ran anybody over.

I will pray for your man’s recovery.

-BB

http://www.bliss-fire.com

On Oct 11, 8:04 pm, Butterfly Bill <arfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> I have never owned a gun, but I have heard many gun owners say, “don’t show a gun at someone unless you are prepared to pull the trigger if you find you have to.” If you are bluffing by shooting it off, bear in mind that someone may call your bluff. Humans aren’t like wild animals; they won’t always be scared off by the loud noise.

I agree...

On Oct 11, 10:40 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> also the only reason i am all over the internet with this is i am trying to get a council together... anyone who wants to help or know anyone who might please spread the word, im done with all the negativity against me and not the others.

janie, these things take a great deal of time to play out (both on the innernut and in the world), have patience. Also have faith that most if not all of the details and nuances of this event will come to light.

It’s good that your Dad is alive and you are relatively whole. You must, at this point try and conserve what resources you still have for both your sakes.

Know that there are aware people who care about you both and about the vision.

Your desires for ““A COUNCIL”” may never produce what you would think you wished for, but, to be sure, the council process is ongoing.

On Oct 11, 8:59 pm, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> A-camp is a powder keg constantly on the edge of violence that needs just a spark to set off an explosion. Sparks are always generated withing that group.

Too bad you didn’t have a pistol. The first shot would’ve gone into the air. If that didn’t sober them up then a second shot would’ve gone into somebodies head. I don’t fuck around. Had A-Camp attacked my trailer like you described there would be a circle of dead assholes laying around my trailer in the morning for the cops to pick up. Kill them all and let God sort them out, is what I say. I’m a peaceful man but I didn’t live this long being afraid or ashamed, to protect myself and my loved ones, from a vicious mob. Your life and your father’s life is more precious than a mob of drunken hooligans. I hope you Dad gets better. How can the Rainbow Family help you?

namaste;
bodhi

I’m sorry for your pain.

On Oct 11, 8:04 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> If there were people around my camper trying to trash it, I would start up the camper’s engine and drive it the hell out of there and not care if I ran anybody over.

I agree.

On Oct 11, 7:59 pm, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Shawnee has long had the reputation of being an A-camp gathering,

Sez you. I’ve had fresh persimmon pie made with fruit picked right off the trees and enjoyed the heck out of Shawnee. :^)

> that’s why I never went there. If the majority of people you see at a gathering are drunks you’re not at a rainbow gathering, you’re at an A- camp gathering.

A-Camp = hobo jungle? That pretty much describes the rest of the gathering that doesn’t booze it up too as far as the existence of thieves and tramps is concerned; neither is violence is not something peculiar to A-Camp alone. Read the Raps, camp in groups (tribes) of people you know, and guard your camp. Rainbow gatherings are peaceable assemblies, but that does not mean they are always serene.

On Oct 11, 9:36 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jamie, please don’t take offense at my post. What those people did was inexcusable, terrifying, and illegal. One thing you must understand about some of the people in that group is they are from the gutter... they are used to having guns pointed at them. I have no doubt whatsoever that some of those people are murderers. There’s no telling how many bodies are buried on or near rainbow gathering sites.

You can’t scare away suicidal people with nothing to live for with a gun. If your dad brought that gun for wild animal protection thats exactly what it should have been used for. Not to intimidate a crowd of ruthless thugs. All this is a moot point now. I feel really bad for you and your dad and like Butterfly Bill says below I would have cranked her up and peeled out of there.

My best wishes and prayers to you and your dad and despite the horrible outcome of your situation I hope you return to rainbow land someday. I have been going to gatherings for 17 years now and have never been attacked...

Love you sister

-=] RiverMan [=-

On Oct 12, 7:36 am, RiverMan <scarumcr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jamie, please don’t take offense at my post.

Let her take offense and learn lessons in the mean time.

Never brandish a fire arm unless you have the intent to use it.

Intimidation is not a game. A fire arm is not a toy.

I feel you are a very lucky girl for not losing your father that night.

I am curious about WHO will become the “rainbow outlaws” because of all of this.

Will it be the dozen or so drunken A-Campers (including one that pulled the trigger on the knee), that were in A-CAMP doing what A- CAMPERS do, who found themselves being threatened by ANOTHER A-CAMPER who was brandishing a firearm a 3am?

Or will it be the A-CAMPER who felt he needed to pull a “high powered” firearm, at a rainbow gathering during a macho display of intimidation tactics (you know, to try and scare them wild A-CAMPERS off), and ended up learning that some people do not mix well with being intimidated!

In today’s world, I am thankful, that someone did not pull their own firearm out at the time (that they carry for protection and not scaring of wild A-CAMPERS)... and precisely place a round in his head!

Lucky some vet did not snap at the sound of a high powered rifle and end up going Johnny Rambo on your whole family!

Personally... when I do go to a gathering, I go to the gathering, and not to A-Camp to sleep in a car and hang out with drunkards!

Good luck with trying to get a council... you will get it.

Just like the Death Camp kids got their meaningless council!

I see a lot of divided folks in this one.

A LOT!!!

I am interested to see how LEO handles this and how OUR gatherings will be changed forever because of SOMEONE bringing a rifle to a party at A-CAMP!

Sooo.... dew to dooo... does insurance cover such damage to a vehicle?

They sure trashed the rig like it was a red headed step child, in a black family, with blue eyes!

Them pictures were sad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdJ5_l9JSUY

“Janie’s got a gun” Janie’s got a gun
Her whole world’s come undone
From looking straight at the sun
What did her daddy do?
What did he put you through?...
She ain’t never gonna be the same

Janie wrote, in part:

> We had a little camper in bus village and a little fire outside where people were hanging out drinking, we went to bed and let the fire burn so people could still hang out,

Mistake number one. Janie,please don’t get me wrong, I am sympathetic, it’s frustrating and sad to hear your dad was the victim of violence at a gathering and sure that this had to be a terrible experience for you as well. I wish it hadnt happened. But since it did, you have to look at the whole picture to undertand why it happened, and think how you can avoid such confrontations in the future. If you had made it clear that people were not welcome to drink around your fire in the first place, for instance...

> at about 3:30 they were really loud and we went outside and asked them to be quieter and they said “well be gone in a minute” we went to bed they woke us up again so we asked them this time to please leave and they told us to go “get a fucking hotel room” so I got my water jug and poured it on the fire and told them to go back to their camp because this was our camp and... 10 people jumped my dad and were fighting over the gun i was hitting the guy wrestling with my dad in the back with a tomahawk very hard, a man with a blond gaotee mustache and ponytail, very skinny, got the gun from my dad and pointed it at his heart, my dad put his hands up and said ‘please dont kill me’ so he pointed it at his knee and fired it went in one leg out the other and through the other leg, and he said with the most cold hearted voice i ever heard, ‘there aint no fucking guns in my woods motherfucker’ ...

All of the above sounds like very alcohol related behavior. Drunks are always flying off the handle at each other and resorting to over the top violence when they feel threatened... Had Dad and Janie had a few as well? Janie, you don’t fill in that detail but judging from the decisions you made that night as to how to cope with your noisy friends it seems likely... just an opinion, but in my decades of experience with people just hanging out round little fires, not drunk or even if they are smoking weed together, people ordinarily just don’t talk to each other like that. They won’t gang up on the guy who says ok I gotta crash, party’s over... they may grumble a bit and complain that you’re harshing their mellow but the tomahawks and bear shootin weapons are much less likely to come out... If violence-prone drunks didn’t think of your camp as a place to hang out, none of the above would have ensued when you tried to shut the party down. Next time hang out with stoners. It’s a horrific scene you describe, and the description of the guy who shot the weapon highlights the craziness and drunken illogic of his words.

> and they took the gun and while my dad was bleeding to death they were laughing saying shanti-sina and i was screaming help no one was coming finally the a campers left and i was still screaming when finally a guy from not a fucking kitchen came thank god and drove my dad to the emergency room. The gun, is a very very powerful gun. my dads leg was just, well it looked like someting took a huge bite out of it not just a bullet hole. also i have a one year old son whos very close to his grandpa, i cant say just how angry i am especially since the cops didnt hardly do shit and never found the guy. after we left a camp smashed the rest of our windows and windshield and stole all of our food my clothes my keyboard everything i had and destroyed my home. now my dads in the hospital and wont walk for some months he doesnt have any insurance but thankfully its a religious hospital and they’re going to help him. but i dont know what were going to do after this.

I understand how painful and frustrating this is... I’m sorry the cops haven’t done more to find and prosecute the guy who shot your dad and again it sucks that you and your baby and your father are going through all this grief. But the key to what happens next is in your hands. You’ve been through a terrible experience but you’re all still alive, free, and with some thought and planning and determination you can and will start over, difficult as that is, and this time rethink who your friends are gonna be, or what kind of people you want to welcome at your home or camp at any gathering and what kind of home your baby is going to grow up in. Does your kid want a scary Mom who threatens her friends with tomahawks? Do you want any more people in your life, ever, that you have to threaten with guns or tomahawks??? How much more alcohol energy are you gonna welcome into your life?

What you mean “we”, Janie? *You* let those people hang out drinking at your fire... I think you said you were in bus village, right? Not A camp? Then why did they have the impression it was ok to drink to the point of stupidity and belligerence at your fire? Did you tell them as soon as the first bottle came out that it wasn’t appropriate at your camp? How come violent drunks never made themselves at home at any of my campfires, not since 1985 (when I was till married to an alcoholic)? That’s a lot of campfires... no violence at any of em, ever. Until each of us takes *Individual* responsibility for keeping our own camp peaceful and alcohol free there will continue to be outbreaks of drunken violence at gatherings...

> .... why the hell are we still letting them be at rainbow?

The fact is, we can try, but it’s not possible to keep out or remove every violent person from a public gathering. I mean, Janie, what do you suggest.. should we build a high razor wire fence to surround every gathering and have cops and brain police at the gate determining the degree of alcoholism or violent potential in each person who gets allowed inside the fence? Should we round up all the people who drink before the fact and have em arrested in case they think of getting violent?

> why are we afraid of them and let them try and run things?

I am afraid of violent drunks because they predictably pull a lot of noisy, angry, melodramatic, dangerous, crazy shit. I learned this sad truth first hand when I was married to a drunk. But I got out, years ago, of that violent relationship with a drunken husband who was trying to run and ruin my life... and my life has been remarkably free of drunks and the consequences of drunkeness ever since. A few times out of love and pity and cause it seemed the decent thing to do I let drinkers stay at my home and each time their behavior became scary and destructive and each time I had to concede defeat, their disease was stronger than them or than me and the only way to protect my home and family was to tell the violence do-ers they had to leave... at gatherings they have to get it in their heads that it’s somehow not alright to be getting drunk in your presence and they will go elsewhere...

> we need to council.

i agree, janie, when we go through a violent experience we need to process what has happened with a mind to understanding our own roles in the way things went down. After all the only thing we can really ever change is ourselves. We each need to really think about what we , or anyone, could have done to keep such a nightmare from happening in our lives again. My best advice, based on my own life experience is that you need to seriously and consistently keep your own life and any space you open up and share with others alcohol and violence free and don’t invite people who can’t respect the sanctity of that space. Counciling after the fact about a violent occurence can’t change what happened but people can brainstorm about what to do when a situation like the one you suffered is fixin to happen again.

Again, to Janie and your Dad and to that little grandkid who loves his Mom and his Grandpa so much. Try try try, and keep trying, daily. moment by moment, for the sake of freeing yourselves up, to heal, and do things differently, better, even, next time any conflict arises...TRY to forgive the drunks whose party got out of hand at your massive expense-- the poor assholes, if they hadna been such stinkin alcoholic type drunks your ordeal would’ve never gone down the way it did. Their lives are and will continue to be hellish as long as they keep drinking, and their days and fucked up nights will be full of the kind of senseless crap that went down the night your Dad got shot, Janie, maybe you think they deserve it but profound suffering is their lot and is the root of most alcoholic people’s drinking problems... Forgive yourselves too for maybe reacting too provocatively and for the way your reactions kept escalating the violence... it’s hard to shut a boozy party down in any graceful or reasonable manner... and if you think cops are useless and shanti sena’s oblivious, consider how many so called peace officers and self appointed rainbow peace keepers are hard drinkers themselves, boozy but nonetheless good people who mightve helped were probably too plastered themselves at that point... and forgive me for being of the opinion that there’s never just one rainbow gathering or one family or one way of life represented at gatherings.. while this awful incident was blowing up in your face, janie, at the other end of the rainbow this part of your family was at peace and having a sweet old time under the stars. next time camp nearer the sweetie pies and avoid the crumb bums.

On Oct 12, 7:19 am, medicine socks <medicineso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mistake number one. Janie,please don’t get me wrong, I am sympathetic, it’s frustrating and sad to hear your dad was the victim of violence at a gathering and sure that this had to be a terrible experience for you as well. I wish it hadnt happened. But since it did, you have to look at the whole picture to undertand why it happened, and think how you can avoid such confrontations in the future.

IMO that was Sound Counsel (advice).

On Oct 12, 8:19 am, medicine socks <medicineso...@gmail.com> wrote:

Medicine Socks - I don’t know if you had seen this posted on the Shawnee Regional Rainbow Gathering Facebook page. The shooting seems to have been a conclusion to mounting problems.

Post:

Drove in from Detroit, it took ten hours, then threatened with robbery, then someone got shot with an assault rifle and almost died. Worst gathering ever! Where the love?

R:Sorry for your inconvenience. There was plenty of Love at Shawnee when you got through the gauntlet at front gate. There was a man with a goatee, his sister and another female who were hustling and assaulting people as they arrived. I p.ersonally saw him assault a young kid the night I got there. He told the kid (who was too drunk) twice to go get something, then lunged and punched the kid in the side of the head. Word was that the two females beat up another kid.

Paths were created to by-pass all the negative at front gate and people were ambushed on those.

These people were running a cell block mentallity on front gate. They are not Rainbow Family but criminals taking advantage of sharing/ caring people.

On Oct 12, 4:37 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Let her take offense and learn lessons in the mean time.
> Never brandish a fire arm unless you have the intent to use it.

Never brandish a fire arm, PERIOD! If caught, the person who shot Janie’s dad is going to claim “self defense” justified his action because brandishing a firearm is an “assault.” No, I am not trying to render a verdict, that is the province of a jury, but I do see Butterfly Bill’s option of driving away as the course of action that should have been taken. The counsel (advise) to never again put one’s self in such a predicament given by Medicinesocks is the wisest post in this Thread so far, IMO.

Peace, Sanity

On Oct 12, 9:41 am, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Never brandish a fire arm, PERIOD! If caught, the person who shot Janie’s dad is going to claim “self defense” justified his action because brandishing a firearm is an “assault.” No, I am not trying to render a verdict, that is the province of a jury, but I do see Butterfly Bill’s option of driving away as the course of action that should have been taken.

I had posted this info to Medicine Socks

> “Medicine Socks - I don’t know if you had seen this posted on the Shawnee Regional Rainbow Gathering Facebook page. The shooting seems to have been a conclusion to mounting problems.

--------------------------------------
“For evil to prosper all it needs
is for good people to do nothing”

On Oct 12, 7:45 am, Old Tom <rascal...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> These people were running a cell block mentallity on front gate. They are not Rainbow Family but criminals taking advantage of sharing/ caring people.

“If you carry a pack on your back but ride in a carriage you invite robbers to draw near.”
- I Ching [one of the Five Classics, the fundamental books of Confucianism]

“Brotherly Love” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsbjuXNISoQ

On Oct 11, 8:40 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

and what would a council do? nothing, they have no power outside their given circle. you had the power to leave and prevent such occurences from happening, but you and dad did not do that, he escalted the event by shooting the gun near folks who are not scared of guns, and drunk to boot. its not a wonder they took the gun from your dad, of course they went father than they should have and the cops will have to determine if they can who actually did the shooting. but i bet you find the courts might side with the shooter for defending himself. as far as the rv, the burden of proof is on you to show which party did the damage, they might have 10 others saying that one person did not do the damage and was asleep at the time. see where this is going? learn from this...next time leave for safety’s sake, and do not hang with folks who do not live the way you would prefer to. that would do wonders in keeping your self and child and dad from harm’s way.

On Oct 11, 8:59 pm, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone can call anything a rainbow gathering, that doesn’t make it a rainbow gathering. A-camp gatherings are not rainbow gatherings. If a person is going to hang out with alcoholic thugs they should be aware that its impossible for other people to protect them and the cops will not be there to protect them. A-camp can only be moderated if they are a distinct minority at a gathering.

rainbow encompasses all types of folks to say that it is not a rainbow gathering is wrong, to try and exclude those in ‘a’camp in the rainbow hierarchy is foolish at best. it would be better to say more ‘a’-camper go to this “rainbow” gathering than non-‘a’campers as there are some non-‘a’campers at this rainbow gathering and have a different area to be in that is seperate from ‘a’-camp and very much less violent than ‘a’-camp.

On Oct 12, 10:45 am, Old Tom <rascal...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Medicine Socks - I don’t know if you had seen this posted on the Shawnee Regional Rainbow Gathering Facebook page. The shooting seems to have been a conclusion to mounting problems.

Didn’t see the post there. No doubt there’s an endless series of bad decisions and unfortunate problems that led to and may ensue from this incident.

Tom,
I’m just an old cynic who would’ve gotten on the horn immediately if I witnessed such goings on, called in the aikido guys with the duct tape AND or the cops and gotten anyone assaulting or hustling anybody tha fug outta the camp by whatever means possible, I have no flower power delusions about turning such people away from their evil ways with my loveydovey beautifulness. I aint that gorgeous anymore.

On Oct 12, 12:36 pm, spiritrising <miketwofeath...@gmail.com> wrote:

> rainbow encompasses all types of folks to say that it is not a rainbow gathering is wrong, to try and exclude those in ‘a’camp in the rainbow hierarchy is foolish at best. it would be better to say more ‘a’-camper go to this “rainbow” gathering than non-‘a’campers as there are some non-‘a’campers at this rainbow gathering and have a different area to be in that is seperate from ‘a’-camp and very much less violent than ‘a’-camp.

I don’t “know” anything about shawnee, I’ve just heard enough from reliable sources to convince me I didn’t want to go there. The rumors could be wrong but if I had decided to see for myself I’d have been very cautious and prepared to hit the road at a moments notice.

Each person has the responsibility to decide for themselves what a rainbow gathering is, there is no official definition, so both of us are entitled to our opinion. Each person will bear the consequences for what ever they decide and the actions they take based on those decisions.

On Oct 11, 8:04 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> I have never owned a gun, but I have heard many gun owners say, “don’t show a gun at someone unless you are prepared to pull the trigger if you find you have to.”

Ditto on BB’s gun-owner quote. I’ve mentioned before that if people will have guns they should be trained. They’d learn that you don’t use the gun to protect property, but a life. If that’s the case (a life needs protecting), then you shoot to kill. Brandishing a weapon and firing into the air was the fatal flaw in the protection scheme, esp. around a bunch of drunks. Of course, the initial failing was partying around a fire with a bunch of drunks in the first place, but that’s a lesson each drunk has to learn in her/his own time. Until they do, these types of things happen.

On Oct 12, 4:37 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> They sure trashed the rig like it was a red headed step child, in a black family, with blue eyes!

I was with you until your racist comment. Actually most abuse of this nature would have gone toward Black children unfortunate enough to be within a White family.

On Oct 12, 1:47 am, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> A-Camp = hobo jungle? That pretty much describes the rest of the gathering that doesn’t booze it up too as far as the existence of thieves and tramps is concerned; neither is violence is not something peculiar to A-Camp alone.

Typical boozer defense. Get thee to the Legion; a cold brewski’s waitin’ with your name on it!

> I was with you until your racist comment. Actually most abuse of this nature would have gone toward Black children unfortunate enough to be within a White family.

Lol, I was with YOU until YOUR racist comment. Switching the ethnicity of the abusive family does not make it now an appropriate generalization.

“Finch” <atomb...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4fadae1e-4ca2-4693-99fb-57d8fe897c37@i21g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

> Lol, I was with YOU until YOUR racist comment. Switching the ethnicity of the abusive family does not make it now an appropriate generalization.

Connie calls everybody a racist, it is her “pokem in the eye” first style. But she is always the one that brings up racism first.

On Oct 12, 9:42 am, medicine socks <medicineso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m just an old cynic who would’ve gotten on the horn immediately if I witnessed such goings on, called in the aikido guys with the duct tape AND or the cops and gotten anyone assaulting or hustling anybody tha fug outta the camp by whatever means possible,

yeah, where were the neighbors when the ruckus started? seems to me, unless one is parked IN a-camp there’d be an ‘anti-mob’ coming to the rescue. did this happen inside a-camp? it’d be easier to understand it better if that was the case. since when was bus village set up so close to our problem children?

one more reason to disban a-camp permanently, if you ask me. otherwise the nationals will be nothing more than a couple dozen drunks camping alone in the woods before long. this incident alone will probably cost us a couple thousand more peaceful campers who have decided on a more peaceful and quiet setting...including me and my brood. or we stop promoting them on the net.

On Oct 12, 3:47 am, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Too bad you didn’t have a pistol. The first shot would’ve gone into the air. If that didn’t sober them up then a second shot would’ve gone into somebodies head. I don’t fuck around. Had A-Camp attacked my trailer like you described there would be a circle of dead assholes laying around my trailer in the morning for the cops to pick up.brother,

thats exactly what our mindset was. “theyre attacking us? well get them.” but u dont know what its like actually being in that situation. besides, if my dad had shot someone, he might be in prison. he told me when i visited him today that he was going to shoot but he didnt know who was guilty of the window breaking & threatening and who was not. he said “i didnt have a target” next thing we know they have the gun. that being said, than k you so much for your kind words and concern. its a breath of fresh air, someone actually wrote a sick poem by the tune of ‘somewhere over the rainbow’ on a forum today about my dad that i just cant believe that person has a heart.

the best thing the rainbow family can do is... keep loving each other, keep going to gatherings and keep them peaceful, remember this and dont forget it, tell people about it dont undermine the story and dont exaggerate, tell the truth so it will never happen again. my dad doesnt want to go to anymore gatherings, but understands my love for the family and that i want to go because of the fact that I dont want those people to have taken that away from me, because they cant im not scared of them. im only scared of others being scared, and not going to gatherings anymore and things like that. I love the family and want it to last forever. The earth needs us. Love u all

On Oct 12, 4:16 am, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> > If there were people around my camper trying to trash it, I would start up the camper’s engine and drive it the hell out of there and not care if I ran anybody over.
> I agree.

one problem... in order to start the camper you have to spray starting fluid into the carborator...next excuse???

On Oct 12, 10:19 am, medicine socks <medicineso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All of the above sounds like very alcohol related behavior. Drunks are always flying off the handle at each other and resorting to over the top violence when they feel threatened... Had Dad and Janie had a few as well? Janie, you don’t fill in that detail but judging from the decisions you made that night as to how to cope with your noisy friends it seems likely... just an opinion, but in my decades of experience with people just hanging out round little fires, not drunk or even if they are smoking weed together, people ordinarily just don’t talk to each other like that. They won’t gang up on the guy who says ok I gotta crash, party’s over...

Ok Since youve sat around so many campfires you must know what it feels like right? FIRST of all, who says i ‘let’ them drink? you think a campers take orders from anybody?

No i didnt have anything to drink they werent my friends

and most important dont dare comment about my child, i defiantely threatened the woman who said she was going to kill me with a tomahawk, and if my baby was there, it wouldnt have been a threat, she wouldve gotten it in the face. and i would have enjoyed it. we didnt “welcome alcoholic energy into our lives” we were ASLEEP we were asking for help by telling the whole story a member of your family got shot. all you care about is tellling us what we did wrong and what i said wrong in an emotional state

what u should be doing is trying to help

if u cant or dont want to, stay out of it and stop making things worse

i dont need to hear what i did wrong

what about what they did wrong?

or what could we be doing now to stop this sort of thing from happening?

i dont understand why your being ‘mean’ to me, when all i am doing is reaching out to you

you couldve left the majority of your post out, because its kind of messed up the way your picked apart my words looking for things to complain about.

On Oct 12, 3:33 pm, Connie wrote:

> Of course, the initial failing was partying around a fire with a bunch of drunks in the first place,

we werent partying around the fire with a bunch of drunks fyi, we were asleep. when we were awake, there were not the same people there. quit assuming

On Oct 12, 10:41 pm, sam <can...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> one more reason to disban a-camp permanently, if you ask me. otherwise the nationals will be nothing more than a couple dozen drunks camping alone in the woods before long. this incident alone will probably cost us a couple thousand more peaceful campers who have decided on a more peaceful and quiet setting...including me and my brood. or we stop promoting them on the net.

THANK you
finally somebody who hates a camp as much as me FW: shooting at shawnee gathering

On Oct 13, 1:16 am, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i dont understand why your being ‘mean’ to me, when all i am doing is reaching out to you
> you couldve left the majority of your post out, because its kind of messed up the way your picked apart my words looking for things to complain about.

Slow down a wee bit. Socks is an ally, have no doubt. These things take a long time to out themselves, have patience. The road to see the full “event” is convoluted. (a few weeks is not a long time) What I find odd is the quietness on the otherwise rampantly vapid Shawnee page. I’m thinking that some quite known personages were in the party’of’the’first’part category and there has been a deliberate avoidance of the issue. I would love to see the POLICE reports.

there’s this:
http://rfoll.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=27

Do you know how many witness statements were taken ???

Dear Janie,
So so sorry to hear of you and your dads troubles. Your troubles are our troubles. This is not an unusual situation except for the fact that someone was shot, there is much violence on the crusty edge, as I (lovingly) call it, and it saddens most that are aware. Some are not even aware. I am sorry that (or if) you may not have been aware of the danger at the edge of the rainbow. I don’t know maybe I am even more saddened by the thought that you knew of the danger yet decided that you could love and tolerate those on the edge. Sharing love and joy with the edge dwellers, embracing them because they are family because you have hope that everything will be alright or at least, some sort of peace and sensibility will arrive when chaos occurs. Unfortunately for you and many others, sensibility does not arrive in time to change the situation. For decades this has been the situation, and your dad has not the first who has been seriously injured. I have known others who have gone to share their love and been violently brutalized.

Spending time on the edge to change the face of the rainbow at the road, in the parking lot or bus village -- to welcome people to the rainbow is important. I thank you for doing that - for just being there. For decades the majority of family has walked right by, and sometimes rather quickly to get “into the rainbow” and away from the violence and drunkenness at the front. They say that they can’t change anything out there, that they don’t have the skills or strength, or they are wounded themselves and know they couldn’t remain peaceful in the face of violence. These things are true, but the edge is our weakest point yet over the years it has also been a strong line of defense. But the sober ones have left this difficult task to the not so sober ones.

Although at Shawnee from what I have heard over the years, there is no getting away from the drunkenness. You may or may not have known, but either way, you are loved and welcome home.

What happened to you, your father, and your property is wrong, and it is not your fault or your dads because he had a gun. If it weren’t for the gun, your dad probably would have been severely beaten. A bottle to the head is a dangerous injury! The mob did not come to negotiate with you! May the healing be rapid for you and your father. My suggestion is to stop replying and defending yourself here and on other forums. You don’t need to. You have told us your story. Save your energy, it is now in the hands of law enforcement.

The council you seek may not really meet your needs as you imagine, I am sorry to say. This tragedy will be talked about for a long time to come, in many large and small circles. Your pain is our pain, it could so easily been any one of us. In time your healing will happen, your story and your grief is being shared with all of us. Be strong, be grateful, and know that you are loved.

On Oct 12, 7:41 pm, sam <can...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> yeah, where were the neighbors when the ruckus started? seems to me, unless one is parked IN a-camp there’d be an ‘anti-mob’ coming to the rescue. did this happen inside a-camp? it’d be easier to understand it better if that was the case. since when was bus village set up so close to our problem children?

Regional gatherings usually only draw 1-3 hundred people and aren’t laid out like annual gatherings of the tribes.

> one more reason to disban(d) a-camp permanently,

Pragmatically, how do you propose to accomplish that?

> if you ask me. otherwise the nationals will be nothing more than a couple dozen drunks camping alone in the woods before long. this incident alone will probably cost us a couple thousand more peaceful campers who have decided on a more peaceful and quiet setting...including me and my brood. or we stop promoting them on the net.-

I have yet to see anyone “promoting” A-Camp on AGR. Please...

On Oct 13, 1:47 am, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> he told me when i visited him today that he was going to shoot but he didnt know who was guilty of the window breaking & threatening and who was not. he said “i didnt have a target” next thing we know they have the gun.

“Baker exited the motor home again and confronted the campers with the rifle. He shot into the ground or air, the spokesman said, not with the intent to hit any of the campers but to “run them off.”

CONFLICTING STORIES on here can end up with quite a fubar situation for you.

Do not underestimate the presence of LEO paying attention to this forum.

On Oct 12, 4:41 pm, Connie <tucson.con...@cox.net> wrote:

> > They sure trashed the rig like it was a red headed step child, in a black family, with blue eyes!
> I was with you until your racist comment. Actually most abuse of his nature would have gone toward Black children unfortunate enough to be within a White family.

Should I have used green eyes ins

On Oct 13, 4:23 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> CONFLICTING STORIES on here can end up with quite a fubar situation for you.

I don’t see those versions as “CONFLICTING.” I have a real problem with bullets fired in the air, for what goes up must come down, and the whole violent scene, but both me and the courts have to hear from the guy that shot Janie’s dad when he presents his defense (if any) before rendering a verdict; that is, if “due process of law” is to have any meaning... I’m not calling him innocent or guilty before he gets a chance to be heard.

> Do not underestimate the presence of LEO paying attention to this forum.

I hope they do! I abhor mobs and promote “due process of law.”

Peace, Sanity Clause

On Oct 11, 10:04 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> If there were people around my camper trying to trash it, I would start up the camper’s engine and drive it the hell out of there and not care if I ran anybody over.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/settler-leader-drives-into-two-palestinian-kids-as-they-hurl-rocks-1.317933

janie <sunki...@gmail.com> wrote:

> one problem... in order to start the camper you have to spray starting fluid into the carborator...next excuse???

You still could have sprayed the fluid and started your engine and driven away from them at the time they were only making noise. I’ve moved mine many times in many bus villages, sometimes more than once in a night. (What good does it do to talk about the past and what you didn’t do? You can decide what to do next time.)

I will first consider asking someone politely to hold the noise down, but if it looks like a lost cause before i even start, I will just move.

What I’m getting at is the confrontationality. Indignantly thinking you have rights and they have responsibilities. I’ll bitch about the noise makers like I might bitch about it raining when I don’t want to. But I’ll go under a tarp or put up an umbrella; I won’t start talking to the sky and complaining that it isn’t fair let myself get all wet because I shouldn’t have to do anything.

Likewise I’ll just find a different place to sleep. (And incidentally, I never put up awnings or leave my stuff spread all over the ground by my vehicle; I always keep everything so I can be packed up to move in less than a coupls of minutes. And I keep the carburetor amd automatic choke in good shape, so it always starts. Especially in a vehicle I’m road dogging in.)

-BB

http://www.bliss-fire.com

Rick <mulem...@dishmail.net> wrote:

> http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/settler-leader-drives-into-two-palestinian-kids-as-they-hurl-rocks-1.317933

If I were in that man’s situation I would have done the same thing. I would have tried to avoid them but if there were no way out without hitting one of them, I still would have gone.

-BB

http://www.bliss-fire.com

On Oct 11, 5:28 pm, Butterfly Bill <arfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> (an email sent to the Rainbow Guide focalizers) -BB
> hello janie frame,

I don’t know how you can call a council from cyberspace. Where would this council meet? I have all sympathy with your struggle and pray for you and your Dad. If the cops have anything you can work with, you must go tht route, but it seems we rainbows are not worth any investigation time, particuarly andevent that happened in the night, in the remote woods. It’s tough. Lets be esoteric for a minute. Have you saged your camper? Asking great spirit for advice and wait to feel/hear/see a sign. What does Dad want to do about this? Is this big blonde asshole on the road? Is he travelling with othres? Where is Dallas and do you know him and his family? I think this needs to become an acamp council, preferably not a vigilante council. That guy is a criminal in our midst. No matter how fucked up on alcohol, drugs or life, he should never have pulled that trigger, but something in that person has said fuck you to life.......Rainbows are life affirming people. He is not a rainbow, just a lost asshole with something dangling between hios legs that causes him great diffivvulty in life. He cares not for others or the spirit of life. He wanted to prove himself and Karma is a big payback. I feel grteat sorrow for him right now. I wish I knew wo he qwas. Look for any pictures. We may need to identify him. Can you remember anything. Write every single memory down. tattoo on the neck, eyes, height, car he drove, who he m,ay have been with. We can’t have him at the rainbow gatherings. About your dad and you. are you homeless? where will you go. I am in Taos and will give you and dad and the camper a rest if you come here. you will be cared for minimally. there are two houses on desert off grid property with family +-. I am Jeff. keep us posrted and keep your prayers strong!

There is no council. Where woould it be held? Let’s call for a council June 20th in Washington State.

River, we can’t council on the internet. there is no one to council but the victims. the perps are out getting drunk and looking for more victims. If the council is on wheter a camp ios welcome, its a done deal. These violent pwople are never welcomed. The council will have to be ongoiing until June, when Jamie needs to develop a council for the gathering before July o1. Any acamper is welcome to speak. I suggest someone find dallas and ask him if he gives a shit about any of this. He is a n acamp elder who operates wioth anarchy, but i believe he has a real heartt.

This is not about the gun, Jamie. Don’t answer any more questions about the gun. You have stated the case clearly. This is not a debate on gun ownership or rights to self defense oir anything like that. Keep focused. A-camp, shawnee, trtavelling family, gathering, disruption and violence, response, asking for council, what to do about a killer, potential killer in our midst. Remember, a gun is but opne of many choiice of weapons. They didnt need a gun to threaten you and dad. they didnt use a gun to break windows. They would have used a stick, a shovel, fists, feet, legs, teeth, and rocks. this was a very bad man...its stime people look around and see who they are hanging with. Lets stop feeding the bears. In some ways, the kindness your dad offered led to the altercation. (Does he dringk? this is a wquestion for you to anbswer, but not to the public, its not really their business. )

The Hopi say, when you are in that river swirling around, having jumped in or tossed in, put your head above the water and look around, and see, who is there with you and celebrate. The ones who were with you before had no understanding of the power of the great river we are all being swept up in. Time is now, dear. This is the wake up. Ypou are here to share your heartsong. what will it be?

On Oct 13, 11:21 am, Jeff from Fairy Camp <jeffreyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> River, we can’t council on the internet. there is no one to council but the victims. the perps are out getting drunk and looking for more victims. If the council is on wheter a camp ios welcome, its a done deal. These violent pwople are never welcomed. The council will have to be ongoiing until June, when Jamie needs to develop a council for the gathering before July o1. Any acamper is welcome to speak.

I never suggested an internet council. And I doubt any a-campers would want to attend or even admit they knew anything about the incident. It sure would seem like the non-criminal a-campers would certainly oppose actions like this for the heat that it inevitably draws to their camp.

Bohdi-Fu2,,,,don’t you see thaT VIOLENCE PERPETUATES VIOLENCE. lOOK AT YOUR OWN PENIS AND ASK YOURSELF....WHAT DOES IT MEAN? What is a bullet compared to life. Stop your ramblings about “what I would have done....” It’s done! Now, are you here for peace and a prayer for peace, or just to tell everyone on the net how manly you would have been?

and I am sorry for your pain. lets waken up together my friend.

Jeff

No one is from the gutter. we are all born from a mothers womb. until a camp is our camp, its just a continuation of them versus us. Thieves are in our midst, and so too are many other bad people. awaken all.

Death Camp is real people, real children all born from a mothers womb. awaken to life. stop segregating. it don’t get better. love is the answer. welcome to death camp and welcome to a camp. we all have our problems. what about you. ever want someone elses money, pot, car? where is the line that makes one person better than another. Lets talk about violence and raising children and love, not the ways to carry guns or the choice of campsites. My cousins lover/ husband/father of her child was killed in a shel;ter for a dollar he never had, because he was deaf and could not hear the request. You can’t blame the victims!!These people are all around us. Who has never felt anger. Now back to this guy who thought in his mind, it could be okay to pull a trigger, hide when the cops showed up and get away with it. Great Spirit sees all. Who helped this man hide fropm the cops. Where is he now. Name, photo, we need to know before July in Washington. people on the road and on the streets need to know to stay clear of this man. I need to know so I don’t invite him home on a cold winters night.

> THANK you
> finally somebody who hates a camp as much as me
> hates a camp
> hates

I am sorry.

On Oct 12, 7:19 am, medicine socks <medicineso...@gmail.com> wrote:

What she said.

On Oct 12, 1:47 pm, Finch <atombau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I was with you until your racist comment. Actually most abuse of this nature would have gone toward Black children unfortunate enough to be within a White family.
> Lol, I was with YOU until YOUR racist comment. Switching the ethnicity of the abusive family does not make it now an appropriate generalization.

Just pointing to the obvious in the hopes gawd will see the error of his ways. Wasted effort in hindsight.

On Oct 12, 10:16 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok Since youve sat around so many campfires you must know what it feels like right?
> FIRST of all, who says i ‘let’ them drink?

Medicinesocks didn’t. She implied you “let” them drink in your campsite; around your fire. You did.

> we didnt “welcome alcoholic energy into our lives” we were ASLEEP

You weren’t asleep when you “welcomed” them to your fire. When you did decide to turn in, you let the fire burn so they could continue to hang out.

> all you care about is tellling us what we did wrong and what i said wrong in an emotional state

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Medicinesocks said all the things I would’ve said if I were as sensitive to your feelings as she apparently is. Her careful post shows me she cares deeply about you and your family. She tried to bring in her hard-learned lessons to help you avoid a future repeat of this ugly scene. I know this because I was once “one of them”. 25 years sober, but I fully remember (except for the blackout and brownout episodes) living in that self-made hell. It’s a very dark place to live and violence is part and parcel of it. I still suffer from the head injuries I received when a fellow drunk went off for no apparent reason in 1981. Med’socks nailed it. Forewarned could be forearmed if a person would take the lesson. You sound like another alky to me. You really had no alcohol to drink at all, huh? Must be the company you keep then.

> what u should be doing is trying to help

That’s exactly what she was doing.

> if u cant or dont want to, stay out of it and stop making things worse

I guess the lesson for M’socks is that one can’t talk sense to someone who doesn’t want to hear what’s being said; like don’t drink and/or hang out with drunks.

> i dont need to hear what i did wrong

You really do. We all do, if we can’t determine it ourselves. Ever hear (any variation of) the saying “what, do you need a brick wall to fall on your head”? This is about (imo) how negative things will happen to us. They can be like small inconveniences with accompanying mild hurt. That’s our cue to look for the life lesson. If we don’t, the lesson will repeat itself, except the damage will incease. If we still don’t look for the lesson and learn from it (by changing whatever needed changing), the lesson will come yet again, and more forcefully each time, until it’ll be like “a brick wall fall(ing) on (our) head”. Smarten up; take the lesson.

> or what could we be doing now to stop this sort of thing from happening?

Don’t allow drunks into your life.

> i dont understand why your being ‘mean’ to me,

She was amazingly kind, imo. Hmmm.... after my dark days ended, I always wondered why non-alky people I knew didn’t call me on my problem; why they didn’t point out I was seriously out of control. I guess it’s a moot point. I probably would’ve reacted similar to you. You’ll have to reach your own personal “bottom” before you’ll catch on, assuming you live that long.

> when all i am doing is reaching out to you you couldve left the majority of your post out, because its kind of messed up the way your picked apart my words looking for things to complain about.

LOL! I’m sure she could find lots to complain about without trying too hard. But that wasn’t her goal. She took time out of her life to offer you some very important words of wisdom, but you’re not open to them. Too bad. Watch out for those falling walls!

On Oct 12, 10:22 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Of course, the initial failing was partying around a fire with a bunch of drunks in the first place, but that’s a lesson each drunk has to learn in her/his own time. Until they do, these types of things happen.
> we werent partying around the fire with a bunch of drunks fyi, we were asleep. when we were awake, there were not the same people there. quit assuming

Assuming? You said “We had a little camper in bus village and a little fire outside where people were hanging out drinking, we went to bed and let the fire burn so people could still hang out,” Okay, so maybe you weren’t “partying”. But there was a drinking party going on around YOUR fire in YOUR campsite. Are you implying you have absolutely no personal responsibility in this movie at all?!?

On Oct 12, 10:24 pm, janie wrote:

> THANK you
> finally somebody who hates a camp as much as me

Well, I’m of the opinion you were hosting a mini-acamp at your site.

On Oct 13, 7:23 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> CONFLICTING STORIES on here can end up with quite a fubar situation for you.

““CONFLICTING STORIES”” ??? there’s only been ONE story SO far. The only one offering a different version is a TeeTimer on FB who doesn’t even claim to have first-hand on the subject. So far there are NO accounts of the incident by other than the SHOOTING VICTIM’S daughter.

How many drunk violent morons need to be charged w/ ATTEMPTED MURDER and then charged in addition w/ any and every other crime the Cops can think of.... unless they are duplicitous in their duty and ecstatic that “the R.bozzs are doing themselves, as that will make it infinitely easier to ..... SHUT DOWN the gatherings

> Do not underestimate the presence of LEO paying attention to this forum.

GOOD !

On Oct 13, 2:33 am, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I have yet to see anyone “promoting” A-Camp on AGR. Please...

Sam didn’t say anything about “promoting A-Camp”. Please...

On Oct 13, 4:23 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> CONFLICTING STORIES on here can end up with quite a fubar situation for you.

Excellent point and advice (although I have no idea what “fubar” means).

On Oct 13, 4:24 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Should I have used green eyes instead?

I’d think a White family trashing a Black stepchild with brown eyes would be more in keeping with reality. Jes’ sayin’.

On Oct 13, 4:58 pm, whistler <azwhist...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ““CONFLICTING STORIES”“ ??? there’s only been ONE story SO far.

I just pointed out the conflict, as stated from a quote in a news article by said “victim”, vs what his daughter came on here saying.

Telling the LEO that the were not planing on shooting anyone and only shot to “run them off”... is a big difference than telling their daughter that they WERE going to shoot someone but could not figure out which one to shoot!

Intent can mean everything within the outcome.

Not that it matters towards anything anyways.

Quite interested to learn more about a quote gleaned of of Shawnee FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shawnee-Regional-Rainbow-Gathering/303411600925?v=wall

“well...I suppose, but by other accounts, he had been spouting off about having a gun all week.”

Sounds like someone was looking for trouble.

meh

On Oct 13, 2:27 pm, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> “well...I suppose, but by other accounts, he had been spouting off about having a gun all week.”
> Sounds like someone was looking for trouble.

So, it’s ‘blame the victim’, eh?
You’re disgusting and no family of mine.

I hope you get what you deserve .....

On Oct 13, 2:33 am, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I have yet to see anyone "promoting" A-Camp on AGR. Please...

hey genius...i was not talking about promoting a-camp...rather i was referring to not broadcasting the gathering in a public forum. we seemed to manage just fine before the internet.

On Oct 13, 4:27 pm, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> “well...I suppose, but by other accounts, he had been spouting off about having a gun all week.”
> Sounds like someone was looking for trouble.

All kinds o people come to gath looking for/expecting trouble, there is no excuse for shooting anyone. AND all who were participants/ witnesses who while in the commission of a crime (destroying property and terrifying old-folks, women and infants) who FAILED to render assistance to the gunshot victim, bleeding to near death, are ALL EQUALLY CULPABLE !!!!!!!

AGR sucks sometimes and some people need to make themselves feel safer by being judgemental. My suggestion is not to expect too much from online rainbow. When your dad gets out of the hospital head west and come to thanksgiving council.

On Oct 13, 12:58 pm, whistler <azwhist...@gmail.com> wrote:

> How many drunk violent morons need to be charged w/ ATTEMPTED MURDER

Attempted murder? Not at point blank range. For sure Janie’s dad could have died from his wounds, but I don’t think ‘attempted murder would stick. Try mahem, assault in the first degree, illegal use of a firearm, etc.

Backpeddeling: I can’t imagine what the shooter could have to present as a defense, but damn it he’s got a right to present one before he’s found guilty or not-guilty... No lynch mobs for me thanks.

> and then charged in addition w/ any and every other crime the Cops can think of.... unless they are duplicitous in their duty and ecstatic that “the R.bozzs are doing themselves, as that will make it infinitely easier to ..... SHUT DOWN the gatherings

Forasmuch as the Cops are sworn to pr

the right of peaceable assembly, and guilt by association or proximity is illicit, they would be duplicitous to try to shut down the gatherings because of this, not that I’d put it past ‘em to try...

On Oct 13, 1:39 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope you get what you deserve .....

Everybody does. That’s Karma for ya.

> Excellent point and advice (although I have no idea what “fubar” means)

“FUBAR” – acronym: “Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition”

Cf.: Post graduate school of hard knocks-n-elbow grease.

On Oct 13, 10:32 am, Jeff from Fairy Camp <jeffreyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bohdi-Fu2,,,,don't you see thaT VIOLENCE PERPETUATES VIOLENCE. lOOK AT YOUR OWN PENIS AND ASK YOURSELF....WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

Thanks Jeff, I’ve spend the last couple of hours staring at my penis and I’ve come up with, “What does it mean?”

Simple. It means survival and protecting your loved ones from a howling mob of drunken murderous assholes.

Now let me get back to staring at my “peace pole”

namaste;
bodhi

On Oct 13, 5:39 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, it’s ‘blame the victim’, eh?
> You’re disgusting and no family of mine.
> I hope you get what you deserve .....

Oh.... Danarchy....

A LOT of people feel the same way about you!

Name changes mean nothing to the people who have met you.

You will always be a child predator, sister rapist, and scum bag.

I am far from being the disgusting person... you have shown yourself to be over the years!

I might have opinions that others disagree with but you are all hype about nothing over everything!

You are a fucking loser that has no life and mooches off of the energy of others.

You prowl the younger sisters like you are a stud... when in fact you are a miserable OLD retch!

You are a has been that will never be!

“Had A-Camp attacked my trailer like you described there would be a circle of dead assholes laying around my trailer in the morning for the cops to pick up. Kill them all and let God sort them out, is what I say.”

You would rather kill people of material value?

No need to answer that... we all know you are a little sissy... except online!

On Oct 13, 4:52 pm, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh.... Danarchy....
> A LOT of people feel the same way about you!

fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke!

> Name changes mean nothing to the people who have met you.

I’ve had several nicknames over the years - same with assumed identities.

> You will always be a child predator, sister rapist, and scum bag.

.... toooo meeeeeee! How sweet.

> I am far from being the disgusting person... you have shown yourself to be over the years!

I’ve taking regular showers now and changing my underwear.

> I might have opinions that others disagree with but you are all hype about nothing over everything!

I don’t torment on-line a victim of a crime.

> You are a fucking loser that has no life and mooches off of the energy of others.

Now I’m mooching off the energy of the government in the form of SSI checks, thank you very much.

> You prowl the younger sisters like you are a stud...

LOL!

> when in fact you are a miserable OLD retch!

not so miserable nowadays but still an old retch unfortunately.

> You are a has been that will never be!

Don’t get all zen on me asshole.

> “Had A-Camp attacked my trailer like you described there would be a circle of dead assholes laying around my trailer in the morning for the cops to pick up. Kill them all and let God sort them out, is what I say.”
> You would rather kill people of material value?

I would protect myself and my loved ones. you betcha I would!

> No need to answer that... we all know you are a little sissy...

I’ve been to the gym ...

> except online!

yep, I grow hair every time I log on.

Keep in mind you’re corresponding to a victim of a crime. I think you’re a bully on-line and a sissy in real life.

No family of mine.

namaste;
bodhi

> Excellent point and advice (although I have no idea what “fubar” means).

Originating in the military (similar to SNAFU, Situation Normal All Fucked Up)

FUBAR is an acronym for Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition

> I’d think a White family trashing a Black stepchild with brown eyes would be more in keeping with reality. Jes’ sayin'.

Still racist! Just because you’re aiming your racial stereotypes against Caucasians does NOT make it ok. You said it again, I said it again. Can we stop beating up virtual stepchildren already?

On Oct 13, 3:31 pm, Sanity wrote:

> “FUBAR” – acronym: “Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition”
> Cf.: Post graduate school of hard knocks-n-elbow grease.-

I graduated from there, too. Musta been out the day that was covered.

On Oct 11, 9:59 pm, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Shawnee has long had the reputation of being an A-camp gathering, that’s why I never went there. If the majority of people you see at a gathering are drunks you’re not at a rainbow gathering, you’re at an A- camp gathering.

events like this is one of the reasons we have alternatives in Missouri, having been to all of the peace conspricy events, its obvious that Lookinghearts good energy, and vision drew only peaceful, spiritly mature, rainbows, never any violent drunks, never any weapons. and loving energy shows up when lazor mike shows up, and intellectul energy shows up when Sanity shows up. and we miss you Spiritrising. peace

On Oct 13, 6:16 pm, Finch <atombau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Still racist! Just because you’re aiming your racial stereotypes against Caucasians does NOT make it ok. You said it again, I said it again. Can we stop beating up virtual stepchildren already?

Not yet. I could clarify by saying that I don’t necessarily think gawd is a racist from his comment. I’m just hoping he might think about the stereotyping behind saying something like that. My method for getting him to (possibly) consider it is to turn the colors of the people around. My other thought (after his “green eyes” question) was that in the real world, Black children are abused by White adults more often than the other way around, so his example could have been more grounded in reality.

On Oct 13, 6:16 pm, Finch <atombau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Still racist! Just because you’re aiming your racial stereotypes against Caucasians does NOT make it ok. You said it again, I said it again. Can we stop beating up virtual stepchildren already?

I will concede, however, that my methods for addressing these types of issues can display a fair amount of intolerance. I was on the receiving end of racism all my life, but for most of it I wasn’t even aware. Even after I sat down with Russell Means in northern MN in ‘76 and he tried to explain how I was being exploited. Just didn’t take. But at some point in my life I was able to look back and realize all the prejudicial remarks that had come my way as a result of not being White. Insensitive remarks even came from one set of in-laws in the form of jokes, etc., but I didn’t see it as racism until much later. I’ve since noticed how this happens in other families, with mixed in- laws for example. The “jokers” would be shocked to learn their comments were racist because often the targets, like me at one point, don’t even realize it themselves. Anyway, I recognize it. It’s late, I’m probably not explaining myself well, so I’ll stop.

On Oct 13, 1:39 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, it's ‘blame the victim’, eh?
> You're disgusting and no family of mine.

I don’t see it as “blame”. Where does personal responsibility come into all this? Where do lessons learned come in? Drunks or no drunks; there are always multiple sides to every story - we’ve heard one. If the dad could’ve focused on a target, then the other guy would’ve been the “victim”, according to what he purportedly said from the hospital.

On Oct 13, 6:28 pm, hooray <rayst...@getgoin.net> wrote:

> events like this is one of the reasons we have alternatives in Missouri, having been to all of the peace conspricy events, its obvious that Lookinghearts good energy, and vision drew only peaceful, spiritly mature, rainbows, never any violent drunks, never any weapons.

Lookingheart...”good engery”,,,theres a comment thats laughable......never heard a lying asswipe refered to as good engery before ....

On Oct 13, 9:00 pm, “rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com” <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Lookingheart...”good engery”,,,theres a comment thats laughable......never heard a lying asswipe refered to as good engery before ....

lying asswipe?, hes never lied to me, and I assume he wipes his ass,

as I would hope that you do all so, all tho their is a smell to your post.

On Oct 13, 7:23 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> CONFLICTING STORIES on here can end up with quite a fubar situation for you.

thats not a conflicting story at all. you misunderstand my words. ‘he was going to shoot’ meaning yeah he shot in the air but after he was going to shoot someone after that if they didnt leave. i read that news story and its pretty much right. that being said the news isnt always fact.

On Oct 13, 11:24 am, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> > one problem... in order to start the camper you have to spray starting fluid into the carborator...next excuse???
> You still could have sprayed the fluid and started your engine and driven away from them at the time they were only making noise. I’ve moved mine many times in many bus villages, sometimes more than once in a night. (What good does it do to talk about the past and what you didn’t do? You can decide what to do next time.)

im sure if u were in that situation you wouldve remained totallly calm and done everything right.

we couldnt go out there they had knives.

anyway, im done here. assholes will be assholes... not you bb, though i am aggravated at how you keep sayng ‘you should have this and that” like everyone else.

but im done

i cant take this anymore i have other things to take care of. love you guys

On Oct 13, 12:17 pm, Jeff from Fairy Camp <jeffreyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wish I knew wo he qwas. Look for any pictures. We may need to identify him. Can you remember anything. Write every single memory down. tattoo on the neck, eyes, height, car he drove, who he m,ay have been with.

yeah tree had a chainsaw tatto around the neck. talk to me on fb im not talking on here anymore too much negativity not helping at all. sunki...@hotmail.com

On Oct 13, 10:10 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i cant take this anymore i have other things to take care of.
> love you guys

Janie; their are 101 post’s on this thread, that’s 101 folks thatcare, regardless of their words or perceptions , you have family, Ray

On Oct 14, 12:06 am, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> thats not a conflicting story at all. you misunderstand my words. ‘he was going to shoot’ meaning yeah he shot in the air but after he was going to shoot someone after that if they didnt leave. i read that news story and its pretty much right. that being said the news isnt always fact.

And... people have been known to lie to the police to keep themselves or loved ones out of jail.

JUST SAYING!

I know how I read what you said and stand by my opinion!

Well..... here is a conflict to your story...

“Please post this to any Rainbow Family forums you have access to, particularly those already having read Janie Frame’s totally fictitious “true” account

First of all, I would like to clear up the accusations of A Camp’s involvement. A Camp had absolutely zero involvement in the incident. There was no A Camp there. A Camp is a group of tightly knit brothers, none of whom were present at the Shawnee gathering.

On the night in question, there were several people drinking and hanging out in the parking lot. They were apparently smoking a joint when one (the RV owner) became agitated and a fight broke out. I heard my friend calling out in distress and I rushed to their aid. When I walked up I saw that the RV door was open with the screen door closed, and there was a female inside weilding a hatchet and screaming violent threats to anyone outside--to wit, “I can hit you if you come near my house!” The female outside most closely being threatened shut the camper door, obviously to keep the hysteriac inside. After the door shut, I clearly heard a man inside yelling, “I’ve got a gun! I’ll shoot you!” Next, he SHOT the gun out of his window--not into the air, at human-being-level randomly into the darkness. Next, the camper door swung open and a man stepped out holding a large rifle. He SHOT the gun again, out the door--again, not into the air, not into the ground, but randomly into the darkness and potentially into the body(ies) of whatever unfortunate human happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Keep in mind, this is a bolt-action rifle and has to be reloaded before each shot. At this point, a man sensing the imminent danger attempted to disarm him, and caught the barrel of the gun right beneath his chin. The man holding the gun then VISIBLY PULLED THE TRIGGER, but fortunately had not loaded another round, thereby sparing the life of a member of our family. That’s when two other men stepped in and began to struggle for possession of the gun, apparently during which time the gun-toter managed to reload, because the next thing I heard was the loud bang of a gunshot. (I find it quite interesting that Ms. Janie Frame can provide such a detailed eyewitness account, being that she was inside the camper the entire time.) Luckily, no one was harmed except the violent psychopath who decided not only to bring a gun to a gathering, but to shoot it randomly into the darkness. I should take this moment to mention that earlier, maybe a day before, I spoke with a sister who said that the gun-toting man in question had been hitting on her rather aggressively and told her, “Don’t worry, if anyone fucks with you, I’ll shoot ‘em with my gun.” Also, several days earlier, one night we all heard a loud BANG and thought, It wasn’t a gunshot, was it a firework? It smelled like a firework. Sure was loud. It was heard clearly throughout the woods, people all the way down at Tea Time heard it. There was speculation of it being a propane tank but there was no tank debris and a distinct sulphur aroma. Well, after the man had been disarmed, the RV was raided to make sure there were no more weapons threatening our family, and sure enough, a quantity of dynamite was recovered. It was in everyone’s interest to go through the RV and make sure he didn’t have another gun in there, or something else outrageous and harmful to all of us. During this time, the windows of the RV were broken, which I attribute to our family’s rage at having their safety and lives threatened so intensely in what’s supposed to be all of our Home. I witnessed all this from close by, but haven’t spoken to any police or authorities because I believe in solving our own problems without outside help--which, I believe, this was an excellent example of. !

Our brothers and sisters handled a highly volatile situation in the best manner possible, and I feel very proud of my family. It makes me feel safer knowing that I have such strong family risking their lives to protect me, you, and all of us. We all owe a great amount of thanks to the courageous members of our family who risked injury or death to keep this threat from reaching us.

Go in Love and Light”

There are many sided to every story!

NOW we have 2!

On Oct 13, 7:46 pm, Connie <tucson.con...@cox.net> wrote:

> I was on the receiving end of racism all my life, but for most of it I wasn’t even aware. Even after I sat down with Russell Means in northern MN in ‘76 and he tried to explain how I was being exploited.

i wish means would just fuck himself and die, but thats just me. he is another bodhi.

On Oct 13, 9:10 pm, janie <sunkist1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i am aggravated at how you keep sayng ‘you should have this and that” like everyone else.
> but im done
> i cant take this anymore i have other things to take care of.

this is one of those situations that you need to stand up and listen, sure run off learn nothing. there are quite a few folks who have been in alot worse situations than what you were in, and thats real life. to assume no one understands what happened is to think your the only one in the world. i live through gun shots every day, its part of life here, is it scary?...well yes i guess,but i don’t worry about it to the point i want to run, running doesn’t solve the problem. is the next bullet going too hit me? well maybe, but until then i will keep working and doing what i can to help people who need help. such is life. i am sure not going to go out and look for people to hold me and say they are on my side as there is no real sides in life.

On Oct 14, 7:32 am, spiritrising <miketwofeath...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i wish means would just fuck himself and die, but thats just me. he is another bodhi.

What have you done with your miserable life?

On Oct 14, 7:34 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the night in question, there were several people drinking and hanging out in the parking lot. They were apparently smoking a joint when one (the RV owner) became agitated and a fight broke out. I heard my friend calling out in distress and I rushed to their aid.

Why your story is lacking in truth and detail,

To the a camp comment, honestly i would consider the camp that drinks tons of alcohol, shakes down every person that comes in, and gets violent with persons passing by, and calls themselves Welcome Home i might add - A Camp. Which by the way i NEVER got a “Welcome Home” from. Only fuck you’s if we didn’t bring them anything. If you ask anyone that was at Shawnee (besides the people that committed these crimes obviously) there was plenty of violence at this gathering before the shooting. We had planned to leave the day of the shooting, the day before because of the woman getting awakened by another woman trying to “beat her up” and all the other women with black eyes supposedly from a man. Not to mention the other accounts of violence, all coming from the same place. No one at that gathering had any doubt in their mind who done it!

Seeing that you did NOT see what started the mayhem, I would say that you are really just starting her story in the dark and have less room as an eye witness (by the way there are such things as windows, too bad they got busted out by lunatics). You missed the confrontation beginning. Windows being shattered, threatening of their lives, there were over 10 people trying to beat up three, are you proud? Another comment I have is that Janie Frame was NOT inside the camper the whole time, she was outside the camper hitting the guy threatening to shoot her father. The windows of the camper were busted out BEFORE the shooting, yet another flaw in the story, but supposedly they broke more of them after the man was rushed to the hospital which i don’t know if you took a part in.

I believe that if those “brothers and sisters” HAD handled this situation in the best manner possible, they would not have gathered around the camper breaking glass and telling the family that they were going to kill them or would have laughed at the man while he was down (yelling for Shani Sena and “dancing around him while he bled). Another point i might add while I’m on a roll, is that there is proof that the man only fired once, another mistake on your part. He never shot out of the window, only out of the door and that was his fatal mistake. He wanted to protect his daughter and there is absolutely NO SHAME in that. Acts of violence were already happening, a large group of people who had been drinking surrounding a small camper with three inside verbally threatening their lives, which is the reason the gun was brought out in the first place.

Janie Frame clearly stated in her story that the gun was not “brought to rainbow” but that they live in that camper and would use it for protection of their family if need be, quoted as “mountain lions and bears”. I think that is also justifiable. And to your police comment, there is no way that the police are not going to come to rainbow if a man was shot there, so i say that obviously the shooter brought the cops upon rainbow. Why were they telling me the man shot himself when i went past “welcome home”? With a rifle? In the femur? I dont think so. That sounds like some covering up to me.

Last and MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT JUSTIFIES THE SHOOTING OF AN UNARMED MAN. In front of his daughter, especially? After he was disarmed, you would think it would be finished if they were doing the family a favor. NOTHING justifies holding a gun to a man’s heart while he’s begging for his life, then still lowering the gun to shoot him in the leg. If those people, including this person who is ALL FOR the shooting, think that rainbow justice includes shooting the man. I say fuck them. You are obviously just covering their shit anyways.

If it was so justified to shoot this man, Why did no one step up to tell their side to the police since you weren’t in the wrong. Now apparently “innocent people” are going to go to jail because no one stepped up. WHY DID THEY LEAVE before sunrise? Nowhere to be found! Because they are guilty.

On Oct 14, 6:32 am, spiritrising <miketwofeath...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i wish means would just fuck himself and die, but thats just me. he is another bodhi.

He was somewhat different 35 years ago, but yeah - he did turn out to be an asshole.

James Harding wrote:

> Seeing that you did NOT see what started the mayhem, I would say that you are really just starting her story in the dark and have less room as an eye witness (by the way there are such things as windows, too bad they got busted out by lunatics). You missed the confrontation beginning. Windows being shattered, threatening of their lives, there were over 10 people trying to beat up three,

Thanks for the additional info, James, and for your good heart.

Carla

On Oct 14, 2:01 pm, James Harding <jameshardin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Because they are guilty.

Judge, Jury, and Executioner eh?

First off... don’t go licking down my neck.

I am not the author of that spill!

You saw it personally?

Or you just putting your opinion in on it?

YOU seem to take delight in speaking down your nose to me for something I did not write!

The truth will come out.

So far... two sides... waiting for more.

As far as your a camp rant.... SORRY THAT YOU FEEL THOSE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE LESSER THAN YOU!

Too busy, judging others, on whether they fit your particular wants and needs of rainbow? Brother Bear.... you got a personal problem with me... drop the shit and speak up.

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT WAS WRITTEN... find the fucking person that wrote it!

TWO SIDES TO THIS STORY SO FAR!

Many more to come!

On Oct 14, 3:06 pm, Carla <ca...@efn.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the additional info, James, and for your good heart.

INFO?

Did you witness it James or are you offering insight from what you heard.... and papa bearing this sister in need?

On Oct 14, 11:01 am, James Harding <jameshardin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Another point i might add while I’m on a roll, is that there is proof that the man only fired once, another mistake on your part. He never shot out of the window, only out of the door and that was his fatal mistake. He wanted to protect his daughter and there is absolutely NO SHAME in that. Acts of violence were already happening, a large group of people who had been drinking surrounding a small camper with three inside verbally threatening their lives, which is the reason the gun was brought out in the first place.

and still more is added to the story now we have another person in the camper, 1 up from the original 2. oooopppps i guess someone didn’t hear about the baby at grandma’s. the plot thickens, and so much for eye witness accounts and truth. i especially like the girls reason for leaving the kid at grandmas, so she could get high and do shrooms, very responsible for her to protect the child. maybe grandma should keep the child once she hears why the girl left the baby there, till the girl grows up a little more!

Gawd wrote:

> INFO?
> Did you witness it James or are you offering insight from what you heard.... and papa bearing this sister in need?

i did not mean to accuse you of writing the statement. i thought you had.

they ARE guilty of shooting this man, no matter what side you are on.

but why have they fled before sunrise?

why is the same side thats saying yea this guy shot him saying he shot himself that morning when i walked by?

why are they pointing fake guns and pretending to shoot at people that only held council about it and had nothing to do with it? you cannot argue the point that it is shady and that their windows got busted out while they were inside the camper. that’s violent. do you agree with violence at the gathering? i am trying to stay peaceful and make sure this never happens again. this is my family, and your family. whether my opinions and stated facts matter to you or not, i am putting them out there for the people that care enough to help stop or at least try to discourage the violence in a non-violent way. the way you are speaking to me, i would consider violent, and you aren’t the only one. were you there? can you tell me i’m wrong? can you tell janie or squattingleaf that they’re wrong, the fact of the matter is, no you cant. i obviously do not have a personal problem with you because you did not write that nonsense. if a person that was there the entire time and can provide details to the event from the opposing side can step up and do it, i would most definitely like to read it. BUT only one person with a vague outline, that was only there for a period of the incident, and facts that are proven wrong has written their opinion and i have to voice mine. PLEASE be my guest and find a person that can explain why they are such a hero for shooting a man in front of his young daughter with no weapon.

50/50 on the witness standpoint.

by the way i am using my friends email because he has a gmail account,

i dont

i am going by what i saw, what was written by both sides and using deductive reasoning, what everyone around the camper saw including those from the rest of bus village, some from not a fucking kitchen, and other family saw, what the police were saying as i walked up to bus village and saw the glass shattered on the ground. i talked to everyone i possibly could while i was there after the shooting, and got what they saw.

The parts that disturb me the most are the times in which the man had his gun taken from him, then was shot.

I do not believe that is necessary in any way. With so many people around i think it’s cruel, this man was shot while disarmed no matter who’s side of the story you get. And defending and protecting your daughter is not a strange or new concept. Especially enclosed in a small space, i’m sure there was a helpless feeling there. My opinion.

Does anyone else believe it is wrong to shoot a man who is disarmed?

I only want the best, and for the rainbow family to be safe and peaceful. That’s a HUGE part of it, that’s why we pray for peace. No one can tell me otherwise on that matter unless you are trying to say that Rainbow is supposed to be a non-peaceful gathering.

On Oct 14, 6:09 pm, James Harding <jameshardin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone else believe it is wrong to shoot a man who is disarmed?

I believe it’s wrong to shoot a man OR WOMAN who has been disarmed, under most circumstances. For example, a scenario where it would be okay would be in self-defense if the disarmed person continued her/his attack (like some methheads are prone to do).

Part of the issue around this story is that details are slim. The window-breakers and shooter aren’t posting, so the report is one- sided.

For the record, I also believe it’s wrong (not to mention stupid) to brandish a weapon, and the “warning” shot added to the layers of foolish acts.

If there was even a smidgen of acceptance of some responsibility from the camper folks’ for their parts in all this, I’d feel more charitable. The shooter’s actions, while “wrong”, should have been somewhat predictable by the camper folks. Since they apparently weren’t predicted by them, they need to look for the lesson(s) in this and figure out what they may have done differently. From what I’ve read, it seems the goal is rather to be portrayed as completely innocent, bearing absolutely no responsibility for what ensued, while attempting to stir up a vigilante group to go after the others.

On Oct 15, 12:32 pm, Connie wrote:

> The shooter’s actions, while “wrong”, should have been somewhat predictable by the camper folks. Since they apparently weren’t predicted by them, they need to look for the lesson(s) in this and figure out what they may have done differently. From what I’ve read, it seems the goal is rather to be portrayed as completely innocent, bearing absolutely no responsibility for what ensued, while attempting to stir up a vigilante group to go after the others.

i’m still trying to figure out how many folks were in the camper 1, 2, 3????? all of it seems like a cluster fuxk

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