Vision Council

Vision Council at the annual North American Rainbow Gathering starts every year at noon on the 7th of July, the last day of the gathering, and it is here that a state or region is chosen for the next year’s gathering. The participants sit in a circle, and a feather is passed clockwise around it, and the person holding the feather is allowed to speak for as long as that person wants and the rest of the circle is supposed to give that person their attention. After it has gone all the way around the circle at least once, anyone with the feather can “call for consensus” on a certain named region or state. If someone objects, that person can “block consensus”, and the feather and the discussion go on to the next person. If there is silence after such a call, for a previously agreed upon time, then consensus is achieved and the council adjourns until July 7th. the next year.

I have experienced one that came to a decision in about four and a half hours (West Virginia 2005 deciding on Colorado) and another one that was over in six hours (Pennsylvania 2010 deciding on Washington). More typically a Vision Council lasts two or three days (really afternoons from noon until darkness) until coming to a conclusion. I was at one in Montana in 2000 that lasted five days, and I have heard that the one in Vermont in 1991 lasted for eleven days, and announced a decision that was ignored by most of the Family (South Dakota, instead of Colorado, which is what most people left the gathering thinking would be decided). This length has been the source of many frustrations to many people and many condemnations of what have become the traditional council processes. But others still defend the existing ways. There have been many proposals for improving upon them, and some of these are displayed in this document. But none of these proposed reforms have ever really taken hold.

I have gathered some threads about Vision Council from alt.gathering rainbow here into one document, converting them from web pages produced by Google Advanced Groups Search. I have made no changes or corrections to anybody’s posts, with this exception: I have shortened quoted sections, since in some cases people quoted entire posts, including quotes of quotes therein, and to reproduce all of these would make this document way too long.

The threads are not presented in chronological order, but in an order to introduce it to a reader who has not experienced a Rainbow Council in person. (They can be read independently of each other in any order, and a table of contents is provided on every page.)

– Butterfly Bill

> Quoted text appears like this

> > Quotes of quotes appear like this

The author’s own words appear like this

Links in blue were still active in December 2014.
Links in black were not.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion. I have not participated in many of these steps.
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On the seventh day of this year’s gathering, Vision Council starts. This is the time for people to discuss a general bioregion, state, or area of the United States that the next year’s gathering will take place in. Vision counicl may take many days and it continues until the folks in attendance can reach consensus on a particular area, state or group of states.

Then over this year’s Thanksgiving Weekend, folks who are interested in planning for next year’s gathering attend Thanksgiving Council. This council generally takes place in the state or area in which the Vision Council reached consensus on for the gathering to take place in. Depending on the part of the country that we are planning for Thanksgiving Council may take place out on the land (such as in Arizona) or in a barn, or other structure in colder climates (such as Oregon or Pennsylvania). Family from across the country attend this council.

The Thanksgiving Council starts the planning process. Anything is open to discussion. Specifically, a Banking Council is set up with folks entrusted to handle banking issues until the next council. An office crew is generally set up to deal with mail and correspondence. In recent years folks have been involved in setting up web sites to help share information with folks across the world. Generally folks on the banking council and the office crew live in the area or nearby. For example, none of the current banking council members for the 1999 Gathering live in California or Oregon. Most of them are in or close to Pennsylvania.

Also at Thanksgiving Council, a date is set for Scout Council and Spring Council.

Scout Council is when any family members interested in being of service to their family by looking for a site get together and discuss how to go about scouting. (Sailor can give us more detail on this process).

Then the scouts go out and scout. How soon scouting starts is generally based on local weather conditions. (i.e. waiting for the snow to melt). Additionally, the family who live in the area of the gathering may have local work crews or councils where they get together to build shitter covers, collect tools, and/or plan for the gathering. Spring Council is the time when the scouts return with their reports. Their generally is some idea of where the viable sites are before Spring Council starts, so the council will generally be held near the area of the best sites. This way anyone in attendance at Spring Council can actually go walk the proposed site before participating in the consensus process.

Spring Council is generally called for 3 or 4 days over a weekend. But once it starts it will continue until consensus on a site has been reached. This may take a week or more if there are multiple good sites or a viable site has yet to be found.

Once Spring Council consensus on a site, the information is freely distributed and we start moving onto the land. Directions to the site will be sent out to various email lists managed by local clans, posted on websites, the newsgroup a.g.r, sent out via mail to focalizers and others, and be put on various local family voicemail numbers (lightlines/hotlines) throughout the country.

Please if you hear rumors of directions to the site, please verify it with multiple sources so that you don’t drive hundreds of miles out of your way to the wrong site. Some of our family gets anxious to share information before consensus is reached. WHen you release information too early you are doing a disservice to your family.

If you are self sufficient, please come to the gathering for Spring Council and help build the gathering. If you are not self sufficient, please wait until closer to the Summer Solstice before coming. Generally the infrastructure to take care of folks takes awhile to get set up.

If you are coming to the area, please don’t arrive before Spring Council. The Spring Council site will be release 1-3 weeks before it starts. Directions to the site will be sent out to various email lists managed by local clans, posted on websites, the newsgroup a.g.r, sent out via mail to focalizers and others, and be put on various local family voicemail numbers (lightlines/hotlines) throughout the country.

When we move into an area we have an impact (both positive and negative) on the local areas. Let’s show the folks who live year round in the Northeast that we respect them by not arriving before Spring Council. If you’re heading that way earlier, stop and sightsee along the way. Visit other states and plan you arrival for Spring Council.

Love,
Karin

http://sbas.abac.com
http://www.sandiegowriters.org

Karin Zirk wrote:

> Disclaimer: This is my opinion. I have not participated in many of these steps

well i have and usually one person gets feather talks for hours till some get pissed then a yelling match starts with one or more people getting disgusted and stomping off as circle dwindles and person or people with most stomach for bullshit can make the decisions then cause they can tolerate so much shit they figure they must be leaders and this was the carefully construed beauty of gathering. this keeps many from participating and the gathering from becoming to large our imperfections are our true beauty. cool uh claw

claw writes:

> well i have and usually one person gets feather talks for hours till some get pissed then a yelling match starts with one or more people getting disgusted and stomping off as circle dwindles and person or people with most stomach for bullshit can make the decisions

Gee! Sounds like the process used in the United States governing bodies....

In article <19990515055120.11462.00000846@ng-fd1.aol.com> laff...@aol.com (LaffinOwL) wrote:

> Gee! Sounds like the process used in the United States governing bodies....

You know I was going to argue with laughing owl

Last winter,though I was up to my ass in snow without electricity or running water in the Kootenay mountains When I wasn’t reading up on Lakota lore I was listening to live coverage of the impeachment til my battery went dead

And yes indeed claw’s discription of council seems apt for the the United Snakes congress

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In article <373D143E.9A7C22A7.alt.gathering.rainbow@intrepid.net>, gath...@cygnus.com wrote:

> well i have and usually one person gets feather talks for hours till some get pissed then a yelling match starts with one or more people getting disgusted and stomping off as circle dwindles

There were five blind men who went to see an elephant.

The first one grabbed a hold of the trunk and said, “An elephant is like a snake.”

The second reached out and got a leg and said, “An elephant is like a tree.”

The third touched an ear and said, “The elephant is like a leather blanket.”

The fourth found the elephants tail and said, “An elephant is like a rope.”

As the fifth blind man approached the elephant, it laid down. and the blind man ran into the side of the beast and remarked, “the elephant is just like a wall.”

All of these blind men were correct. Which of these men do you yhink knows what an elephant looks like?

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os...@accessone.com wrote:

> Which of these men do you yhink knows what an elephant looks like?

None. They’re all blind.

Can a mute describe the taste of honey?

W^B

In article <7hk8en$8q3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, os...@accessone.com wrote:

> All of these blind men were correct. Which of these men do you yhink knows what an elephant looks like?

my point being that some bellies never make it past the parking lot and they believe that they have seen the Rainbow Family of Pure Light gathering I can say that claw’s account of the vision council is correct my perception of the same event would go something like this: a decision is reached on the new gathering state only when absolutely everbody present in the circle agrees absolutely one individual can hold out against the entire council until everyone who disagrees wih him/her grows weary and falls asleep or runs off to cook dinner it is her/his right and the rainbow way it is a trewly beeutiful process honestly it is unpleasant and is taxing on the spirit but it takes the gathering to new places where it is needed most Texas was a big drag or else a wonderful healing experience depending on who you talk to putting it another way: suppose they gave a healing gathering and just only healers showed up. Nobody to heal. Nobody who needs healing. How much healing do you think would go on? There is such a gathering in the Okanogin and it is by invitation only Healers kick back compare notes. Talk shop. Massage each other. Hold prayer circles without pissin houndawgs runnin thru I’m not invited because I am a sickie maybe someday love n light osee

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---Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.---

claw wrote:

It doesn’t need to be this way. The All California Gathering that happened in 1998 when through pretty much the same steps and there was no shouting, yelling, very little arguing. Mostly folks listened respectfully to other peoples opinions and disagreed in a kind way until we all agreed.

I have sat in Council at the Annual Gathering of the Tribes and had it be a beautiful experience and have it be miserable. It’s up to us to learn effective ways to council and to take the time (before council) to teach others.

It also helps to talk to people before council about your ideas and make personal connections. We all tend to respect people we no personally better than those we don’t (it may not be right, but it’s human nature).

IF we are part of the solution, we are part of the problem.

Love,
Karin

PS. Thanks for sharing the negative side of the process. If we are to improve, we must face both positive and negative head on!!!

http://sbas.abac.com
http://www.sandiegowriters.org

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Here it is again and I have brought it up for consensus in a focalizer’s council before........we’ve tried this in our council’s locally and to date haven’t had any of the abuses seen in many other council settings.....

love
Dragonfly
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the MINI-MANUAL of COUNCIL

If at all possible, hold Council out on the land, under the sky.

Make sure everyone concerned has plenty of notice of the lime and place.

Especially invite the people you disagree with (or who disagree with you).

Always hold hands first and bless the circle.

As soon as possible, pass a feather around the circle to hear what each person has brought to be discussed.

Make sure the feather makes it at least once all the way around, so everyone gets a chance to speak.

If no one else does, (explain the Council tradition: passing the feather; facilitating a discussion by pointing the feather, making a proposal and asking for concerns; consensus by silence.

If no one else does, offer a prayer for Spirit’s guidance.

If no one has a discussion to facilitate or a proposal to make, passing the feather and sharing heartsongs is always worthwhile.

Once everyone has spoken, the feather can be put aside if it is no longer needed.

Council is the process of figuring out how the group feels; it’s not just for thinking.

The goal is not necessarily consensus of action, but of understanding: once we understand each other, what to do should be obvious.

The Council process only works if everybody present wants it to.

Council gets longer, not shorter, if more than one person is talking at a time.

Listening without interrupting the feather is a spiritual discipline (we do our best).

Listening to others is also the only way to be sure they will listen to us when our turn comes.

It is appropriate to interrupt someone who takes advantage of our willingness to listen. Interrupting too can be done respectful

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FOCALIZER MINI MANUAL

“Of course we have headmen! In fact, we are all headmen. Each one of us is headman over himself.”
A !Kung (Bushman) of the African Kalahari desert, “Life Without Chiefs”.

Everyone focalizes who helps the family get focused. A focalizer is a person who takes on the responsibility of passing on Rainbow information year-round, and serves as a contact if listed in the Rainbow Guide. We council together every year at 3:00 on the 5th day of July; our Family is welcome.

-- Focalizers Council consensus, Colorado 1992.

What’s focalize, anyway?

It’s a magical word; it means anything you want it to. The catch is that you really have to mean it. In essence, focalizing is communicating: passing any info you receive through the larger network on to the network in your area. If that’s all you can manage, it’enough. But as usual, the possibilities are endless.

One brother mainly focalizes a bus: every year he loads it up with pilgrims to the great North American Gathering of the Tribes. Others focalize a kitchen or camp for their home folks at the Gathering. Or focalize C.A.L.M., All Ways Free, the Rainbow Guide.

Some focalize mostly on the regional level. Regional gatherings take a lot of work and a strong network, connecting several circles in the region. A dozen regional circles across the country focalize occasional newsletters or informal mailings.

Others focalize strictly local circles. In New York they hold two huge picnics a year. In Madison it’s a small one every Sunday. In a couple dozen other cities, circles are monthly. Some of these events take over a down town park. Some materialize miles out in the woods.

The Monterey and Santa Cruz circles pulled off a magnificent benefit show for All Ways Free. A circle in Tampa did their benefit for the Children’s Rain Forest; Tallahassee does one regularly for the victims of genocide. In D.C. and Berkeley, Family circles feed the homeless. The Memphis circle does an Earth Day celebration for their city each year.

Focalizing involves looking into the magic that manifests the Rainbow Gathering, learning some of the skills, and tapping the same sources on a smaller scale. Our circle springs from Spirit; Mother Earth is our teacher and guide; holding hands in a circle somehow re-connects us not only to one another but to sky above and earth below. Helping this to happen is a powerful and empowering experience.

Who focalizes?

If you’re the first to get tired of waiting around for the 4th of July, if you don’t care to live where there isn’t an occasional Gathering in the park-- you do. Instead of complaining, or finding a substitute, or moving away -- start a local circle.

The key to focalizing anywhere is: find the other focalizers. It takes as much collective familiarity with how Gatherings work as you can muster. Find all the other brothers, sisters, households in your area that feel like missing pieces of a circle; council and decide what to do about it. Do it together.

The Rainbow has no leaders, only louders. You can’t start a circle all by yourself, but someone has to call the first council. When three or more of you agree to invite all peaceful beings in the universe to a local park, it’s already happened. The folks that show up are the circle; they’ll decide what to do from there.

The Rainbow Guide is a good place to start. Contact all the focalizers listed for your region and ask for addresses around your hometown. Add friends who you feel are Family, and ask them to add theirs. Mail out an invitation or do it by word-of-mouth.

Start any council with a circle; it draws the energy together. A moment of silence gathers the focus. Songs, prayers, chants help too. Passing the feather and sharing heartsongs is a good way to break silence but once it starts, make sure it travels all the way around so every- one gets to speak. After that, put it away if it gets in the way of the flow. But encourage every one to participate.

(It doesn’t have to be a feather. Use a stick, a rock, a shell once we passed a Gumby doll long into the night. What’s important is the discipline of listening to each feather-holder in turn till our own turn comes, and what it teaches us.)

The first council may simply choose a time and place to invite the community at large to experience the Rainbow a picnic, potluck or overnight campout anything that’s free and peaceful and open to anyone. You may also talk about exactly how big an area you’re inviting. Your city or town, the surrounding countryside, a bioregion or state boundary? Don’t take too big a bite; let it grow organically.

Besides, who’s going to help? The idea is not to volunteer to keep the mailing list, make the phone calls, scout the site, draw the flyer and lick the stamps all by yourself. A circle of people within the larger circle will hopefully share these responsibilities. Plenty of good folks have been burned out like a fuse by volunteering to do too much or picking up whatever other volunteers may drop.

The other side of responsibility is power, and it pays to diffuse the power (defuse the powder) among a minimum of three people. A solitary focalizer can get too important to be much use any more. So make it clear from the start that the essence of Rainbow is to share, not only the potluck-eating and decision-making but also the shitter-digging and envelope-stuffing. You need one person’s address for getting mail, but that person isn’t the focalizer. It takes a veritable Rainbow of talents to keep a circle rolling, from scouting enthusiasts to designers of flyers. This is Rainbow. Share it.

What do focalizers do?

Whether, when and where a second local gathering happens is the decision of the circle that shows up for the first one. The focalizer’s job from that point on is simply to communicate the when and where. This can mean ocasional mailings, using a phone tree (where each person you call has four or five to call in turn), recording a message on a contact number, or just posting a flyer in the right places around town. Remember that the Rainbow is not the Rainbow unless it is open, always inviting new brothers and sisters into the Family. Don’t let it become the private club of a habitual few who know each other and think they’re the Rainbow people around town. If your circle thinks that, you’re not! Keep extending the invitation; seek out your spiritual kin.

At your local gatherings, the focalizer may be the one who puts up an info board or signup sheet. The one who realizes folks are getting hungry and it’s time to circle. The one who reminds everyone of what needs counciling before you eat. The one who proposes doing a benefit, a campout, a caravan to the regional. But as soon as you suggest it, shut up and listen. The circle may or may not jump at your idea. It may or may not want you to act on its behalf. You have volunteered only to serve and facilitate, not to lead anyone.

In Babylon people don’t grow up with council and consensus. We’re used to being told what to do and Rainbows in particular often magnetically repel anyone who tries. Others are unconsciously looking for the security of a leader, and before you know it they’ll be following wherever you go: presto, you’re just as trapped in the leader role as they are trapped in the follower. Don’t let them get away with it! Respecting consensus is all the more important for the one who chooses to focalize, because our circle is one of the last places people can learn this crucial part of being fully human. Even at the price of inefficiency, frustration, and endless discussion, let the people decide. They’ll get better at it with practice. Patience is a wonderful thing to learn (once you learn it).

At first it may seem necessary to do most of everything; just don’t get in the habit! When things need doing, make an effort to pass the task along. Soneone is out there waiting to be useful, maybe even unaware of some talent they have. Giving away all those tasks, each to the right person, will leave you exhausted but save you from burning out.

Healing Babylon’s bruises is one chief reason we come together. And one of the basic healings the Rainbow offers is precisely this: the medicine of participating in something worth-while, giving your own best contribution for free, just for love. The focalizer is therefore one of the Family healers. The ego traps are many, but stay in touch with your circle. Remember the higher calling of Rainbow, to help us all heal and grow, learn to be part of a Family again.

Who are the focalizers?

Each year at the North American Rainbow Gathering we hold a Focalizers’ Council to share what we know and do. We are young and old, brother and sister, from rural and urban places; we have different methods and ideas. We have in common only the love of our Family and the urge to serve and, gradually, a network of communication.

Several individual volunteers send out an occasional Focalizers Quarterly Mailing to update addresses and pass messages from the various Family-wide focalizing circles (CALM, All Ways Free, the Guide etc.) to the regions.

There is an ongoing international conversation on alt.gathering.rainbow, a UseNet newsgroup. The Colorado Legal Eagles maintain an extensive archive on a web site called the WelcomeHome Page (http://www.WelcomeHome.org/rainbow.html)

We also communicate through the all-volunteer all-donation newspaper All Ways Free and mini-manual/directory, the Rainbow Guide.

Once your local circle gets going, send a contact address and/or phone to the Rainbow Guide. (If you want to hear from other focalizers but don’t want your phone number in the Focalizer pages of next year’s Guide or don’t want to appear there at all make that clear. The Focalizers’ Network keeps a separate list available only to focalizers.) As soon as it’s practical, invest in a P.O. Box so more than one household has access to the mail. Just as we do at gatherings, local, regional and Family-wide focalizers can help each other out. Run off some copies of Ho! for your picnic, and pass the magic hat. After your copying is covered, send some of the magic to help with Ho!’s paper, printing and mailing costs. Send some to All Ways Free and the Guide; it’s the surest way to get some Frees and Guides to pass out at your next event.

If every local circle dreamed up some small-scale fundraiser for Rainbow communications once a year, no one would have to pull off a megabuck event to print regional newsletters, AWF, or the Rainbow Guide. If small chunks of money are continually coming in from all over the country, the cost spreads out to virtually nil. The same principles apply on the planetary as on the local scale: if everybody does a little, nobody gets burnt out, and the work is a celebration rather than a chore.

The heart of focalizing is really no different from the heart of Rainbow: loving service. The focalizer is just the first to realize that it doesn’t stop after Cleanup. We feel called to serve our Tribe as the Tribe is called to serve this planet in the hard hour of its transition. The joy that flows from this will sometimes seem to be the only reward ... except for patience. “Among Indian groups such as the Mehinacu of Brazil’s Xingu National Park ... if something needs to be done, it is the headman who starts doing it, and it is the headman who works harder than anyone else. He sets an example not only for hard work but also for generosity: after a fishing or hunting expedition, he gives away more of his catch than anyone else does. In trading with other groups, he must be careful not to keep the best items for himself.” (“Life Without Chiefs,” by Marvin Harris, New Age Joural)

FOCALIZERS! Please contribute your knowledge and experience to update, improve and amend this document into a FOCALIZERS MINI-MANUAL that represents our collective wisdom, not just mine!

Write : Focalizers Mini-Manual c/o Atlanta Rainbow P.O. Box 5455 Atlanta GA 30307 Many thanks for your input and feedback! love, Stephen Wing

-- Southern California Rainbow info is online at at http://home.earthlink.net/~kzirk/scroll
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http://sbas.abac.com
http://www.sandiegowriters.org

> “Of course we have headmen! In fact, we are all headmen. Each one of us is >headman over himself.”
> A !Kung (Bushman) of the African Kalahari desert, “Life Without Chiefs”.

Thankyou Karin Zirk for sharing this wonderful document from Stephen Wing. The prose just flows! This is one of the best things I’ve seen yet that explains what Rainbow is ideally meant to be. I saw the miraculous meaning of Rainbow years ago directly in the face and voice of a brother who talked about it with the deepest appreciation. And the sweet people on this list reveal it also even through the filter of this written medium.

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It occurred to me through some of the hate mail and flame, some of which called into question my spelling abilities, that some folks might be confused when I continue to use the word “counsel”, a verb, instead of the statist term “council”, a noun.

In the Ozarks many of us decided that the noun “council” does not accurately reflect or describe what it is that is happening when we circle and try to work through our issues and attempt to arrive at a consensus. The noun conjurs up images of supreme courts and ruling bodies and people getting voted off an island and some of these images might cause apprehension and fear among folks who might otherwise want to participiate in illumination, growth, understanding and cooperative efforts because most people want to feel like they are part of something creative. Even if everyone in the circle is calm and not ranting and raving, the mere appearence of an authoritative rule-making body is enough to chill a persons exercise of participation, and we decided that the cost was too great and that our vision could not afford to lose the participation of even one person no matter how new they were to the experience, as we tend to be ‘short on people power’, so to speak (numbers) in the Ozarks, and we need all the help and participation we can get in order to have a graceful healthy gathering.

The term ‘council’ itself lends to the idea of a statist controlling body and this is just the sort of thing that the feds are looking for when they want to enforce the dilution and elimination of constitutionally protected rights of assembly and expression. It is an achilles heal that they exploit relentlessly in case after case, including those we fought in the Ozarks. You will see them say, in case after case, “Oh yeah yer honor they say they have no hierarchy and no authoritative voices, but look here they have ‘councils’ wherein they control their numbers and pass down rule-making from upon high.”

We no longer use this term in the Ozarks to describe our circles. We feel the term “counsel” is a more accurate reflection of what is going on and we feel that the use of this term is less likely to chill participiation, and is more likely to foster breakdowns of dissagreements and the acceptances between individuals necessary for a consensus to arise.

I’ve never been big on spellcheckers. I have limited resouces as to time and plus the flaming tends to get my hackles up so I tend to bang through my posts without checking the spelling.

“captkrk” <captki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6e5eaf73.0210171050.5afad887@posting.google.com...

> You will see them say, in case after case, “Oh yeah yer honor they say they have no hierarchy and no authoritative voices, but look here they have ‘councils’ wherein they control their numbers and pass down rule-making from upon high.”

That’s saying an awful lot there in one sentence. You are obviously paraphrasing to a degree, but paraphrasing what exactly? I’d like to see this in a court transcript. Or is this a hybridized and theoretical ‘transcript’ of several court proceedings? And whether ‘they’ say all this to ‘yer honor’, or not, how is someone to discern what the judge has concluded (if anything) with respect to this one aspect of Rainbow Gatherings having heard this? Incidentally, the spoken word, ‘counsel’, sounds no different than the spoken word, ‘council’, so how, in a court proceeding, would the judge be able to make the distinction between them, and why wouldn’t someone having *read* that some people decided to have a ‘counsel’ not simply conclude that the term had been misused, as it would appear to have been?

> We

who?

> no longer use this term in the Ozarks to describe our circles.
> We

who?

> feel the term “counsel” is a more accurate reflection of what is going on

in what respect, exactly? In the respect that to give counsel is to advise and that to receive counsel is to be advised? Is there then a hierarchy of ‘counselor’, and ‘counseled’? I conclude that if a bunch of folks are sitting around ‘counseling’ one another, they have just had a ‘council’.

Here’s the predominantly used meaning for the word ‘council’:

1 : an assembly or meeting for consultation, advice, or discussion

> and we feel that the use of this term is less likely to chill participiation, and is more likely to foster breakdowns of dissagreements and the acceptances between individuals necessary for a consensus to arise.

To me, a ‘council’ is a meeting for the discussion of issues felt by the participants to be important enough to discuss. I don’t necessarily see it in any sort of a negative or ‘authoritarian’ connotation , but then, I can only speak for myself and not on behalf of an entire bioregion.

-T-

One voice. Does that have any meaning to anyone anymore? One voice. Sit around the fire, for as many days as it takes, respect the speaker. Listen. Determine value. Speak if moved. Come to a consensus eventually. If not keep talking. Come to a consensus. Then speak with one voice without wavering. It’s so f*$&ing easy. You are all losing it. Don’t lose the light. It’s black or white.

> That’s saying an awful lot there in one sentence. You are obviously paraphrasing to a degree,

What the fuck is wrong with that? You know some of us have actually been dragged into federal court on your behalf I’ll respectfully remind you.

Ok here we go again, when our little internet directions are threatened by the meanie let’s deconstruct every last word he says and then reconstruct everything to reflect negativity on it. Here we go now;

> Incidentally, the spoken word, ‘counsel’, sounds no different than the spoken word, ‘council’, so how, in a court proceeding, would the judge be able to make the distinction between them, and why wouldn’t someone having *read* that some people decided to have a ‘counsel’ not simply conclude that the term had been misused, as it would appear to have been?

No. In specific cases in the Ozarks defendants have tried valiently, on your behalf I might add, to point out this crucial difference in terms to judges that in the end were essentially comatose. The judge decided in favor of the prosecution and decided to agree with the prosecution’s take on it.

> > We
> who?

Counsels in the Ozarks. Do you have a problem with that? Or can we not have a collective voice? That would not be OK with you.

> > no longer use this term in the Ozarks to describe our circles.
> > We
> who?

Can you read? The counsels and the people who make up the counsels.

We.

> To me, a ‘council’ is a meeting for the discussion of issues felt by the participants to be important enough to discuss. I don’t necessarily see it in any sort of a negative or ‘authoritarian’ connotation , but then, I can only speak for myself and not on behalf of an entire bioregion.

Fair enough. And when I use the term ‘we’ I feel it is safe to say that I refer to the region bounded essentially by Missouri and northern Arkansas, and not necessarily Illinois or Kansas or other parts of the ‘bioregion’, bioregions being a response to the creation of ‘regions’ by the Deforestation Service. And also I would include in the term ‘we’ other people who have expressed these sentiments but who do not live in the Ozarks or normally do counsel there. Sure hope this clears things up

> -T-

“captkrk” <captki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6e5eaf73.0210172351.2b4af018@posting.google.com...

> > That’s saying an awful lot there in one sentence. You are obviously paraphrasing to a degree,
> What the fuck is wrong with that? You know some of us have actually been dragged into federal court on your behalf

First of all, nothing is wrong with paraphrasing, and second of all, you’ve never been dragged anywhere on *my* behalf, and third of all how about answering the question you snipped?

> I’ll respectfully remind you.

Okay, I’m all ears, when does the ‘respectfully’ part begin?

> Ok here we go again, when our little internet directions are threatened by the meanie let’s deconstruct every last word he says and then reconstruct everything to reflect negativity on it. Here we go now;

I’m amazed you found negativity in what I had to say to you. None was intended, and I still don’t see it. Rather I constructively expressed another viewpoint.

> > Incidentally, the spoken word, ‘counsel’, sounds no different than the spoken word, ‘council’, so how, in a court proceeding, would the judge be able to make the distinction between them, and why wouldn’t someone having *read* that some people decided to have a ‘counsel’ not simply conclude that the term had been misused, as it would appear to have been?
> No. In specific cases in the Ozarks defendants have tried valiently, on your behalf I might add,

Get real dude, I’ve asked you for nothing on my behalf, nor threatened nor represented the slightest threat to you.

> to point out this crucial difference in terms to judges that in the end were essentially comatose. The judge decided in favor of the prosecution and decided to agree with the prosecution’s take on it.

> > > We
> > who?
> Counsels in the Ozarks. Do you have a problem with that?

not at all

> Or can we not have a collective voice? That would not be OK with you.

Whether ‘you’ representing some ‘we’ have a collective voice as expressed through you is not up to me, but I was asking for a more clear take on what you meant by ‘we’ is all.

> > > We
> > who?
> Can you read?

Question obviously answered before asked.

> The counsels and the people who make up the counsels.

I can/have read that. Thank you.

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