A meeting in San Francisco

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A meeting in San Francisco - part 3

For the past 6 months people have been bitching, moaning and whining becuz nobody would post the names of those working with the USFS and the "National Rainbow Management Team".

Now here it is I post 6 names out of the 10 people involved and yet nobody has anything to say.... I guess you really didn't want those names after all.

--
All the best for LESS !!!
Compu-Savers
http://www.compu-savers.net

What do you think I would do with them, pokey? Or anyone else, minus the so-called "whiners?" (They, presumably, would whine about them.) You're right, I could have spent the various expenses to find out. I'd like to know why I should care. And if you're going to post a teaser, you oughta tell me. And then, like most of the folks who post political stuff here, it would be nice if you'd offer a solution. Like the address of a California congressman or something.

Otherwise, I just feel poked!

Loving you,
Becca

Refer to jbirds post in the other here's the names thread, he offers up something inspiring I'll wager a guess that that's the kind of thing you were aiming for...

Becca

here are the names of the supposed "traitor" to the Rainbow Family. The ones who have created a secret cabal to hijack the Rights away from the momma and the little one in kiddie village thus condemming them to a life of slavery to the government. yep, enclosed are the dreaded RMT, who hold secret rites with the unholies.....bla...bla...bla... While spending months trying to get William O'Leary and Sailor (the Woodsteins and Bernwards of the Rainbow Family) to reveal theirsources, they have finally REVEALED ALL!!!!! My response?? What a bunch of hysterical crybabies! here's the list: Barry Adams Garrick Beck Brian Michaels Jeff Kline John Buffalo Badger Now, except for Jeff Kline and Brian Michaels, i have over the years met everyone on this list. These are people i have loked up to and have enormous respect for. Had it not been for the efforts and visions of these individuals there would be no Rainbow Family for the likes of Preacha to whine about. If Rainbow was a corporation, these individuals would have their pictures on the wall. Everything i have experienced in rainbow i owe to the dedication of these individuals.

Over the years of attending gatherings i have come to personally trust these individuals unconditionally.They are the folks i introduce to newbies as the heart and soul of Rainbow. To have worms like Preacha and Sailor - neither of whom's contribution even remotely matches either one of these individuals - drag their names in innuendo, lies, and paranoid ranting is to me unreal. If these individuals are meeting with the Forest Service, then i am proud that rainbow can produce such fine individuals to represent us. So what's next Billy? Are you going to reveal that Badger stole a tricycle when he was 3? Or perhaps Barry Adams didn't pay his income taxes? What soried tales are you going to produce to make yourself and your pathic pals look rightous? You, and the rest of your sad group of anti-permit witch hunters are not what Rainbow was, is, or will be. i am confident that the future of Rainbow looks a hellva lot brighter with a "Rainbow Mangement Team" composed of these individuals that having Rainbow dictated by fanatic like you. Yes, i respect my Elders - those who have earned my respect, admiration, and trust. And the list you have produced shows me that anybody who **fears** our involvement with the Forest Service has nothing to worry about. You are an angry, jealouse, insecure individual who will attach himself to confusion and fear in order to make himself look big. Preacha and Sailor, Go find yourself another group that you can make yourself look big. we already have those in the family that have proven themselves.

namaste;
bodhi

bodhi wrote:

> here are the names of the supposed "traitor" to the Rainbow Family. The ones who have created a secret cabal to hijack the Rights away from the momma and the little one

I'm not going to get in a shouting match with you, you have already shot yourself in the foot too many times for folks to take you seriously. But let me correct one thing. The folks on this list, with the exception of one, perhaps two, are merely paper chiefs, they bask in past glories and aren't really active in the nuts and bolts required to make a gathering function. They are out of touch with the new kidz you seem to promote so much. They don't attend local pot lucks, regionals and with the exception of one didn't even attend TGC this year. Had they done that they would have realized how strongly folks there opposed any permit for this up coming summer. Plainly they are out of the loop and need to quietly fade away.

rbeccac...@aol.com (Rbeccacake) wrote in message news:<20040108012243.19091.00002...@mb-m13.aol.com>...

> What do you think I would do with them, pokey? Or anyone else, minus the so-called "whiners?" (They, presumably, would whine about them.) You're right, I could have spent the various expenses to find out. I'd like to know why I should care. And if you're going to post a teaser, you oughta tell me. And then, like most of the folks who post political stuff here, it would be nice if you'd offer a solution. Like the address of a California congressman or something.

The political task that we face is bigger than writing to your congressman. If we simply shout at people over bullhorns, recycling the language, the slogans and the politics of the 60s we will fail. What if we stopped in the middle of our rallies and said, "But you know, these issues are complex, and many of us have mixed feelings, and let's take some time for all the people here to talk to each other instead of listening to more speaches." More creative and interactive ways to teaching and learning need to be used; role plays, story telling circles, councils. Groups like Art and Revoloution, Reclaim the streets and the Living River in Quebec have brought art, dance, drums, creativity and mobility to street actions and have developed mobile and fluid street tactics while embodying the joy peace and shared abundance of the world that we are trying to create. A completely non-violent protest is to claim a space where we can exemplify the world we want to live in with clean water, free food, free medicine, where no one is exploited or excluded or oppressed. The political task is to create an example of global justice that is so joyful and alive that the world will want to hear more about our visions for the world.

metta

In article <37d623ab.0401081055.77662...@posting.google.com>, Stella says...

>The political task that we face is bigger than writing to your congressman. If we simply shout at people over bullhorns, recycling the language, the slogans and the politics of the 60s we will

Yes.

peace,
mt

Old and in the way, eh?? How many regionals have you been to lately?

namaste;
bodhi

bodhi wrote:

> Old and in the way, eh?? How many regionals have you been to lately?

How many ahve you been to ??? and who can verify this ??? and when wa the last time you were at a National ???

> namaste;

And the joke continues

--
All the best for LESS !!!
Compu-Savers
http://www.compu-savers.net

William O'Leary wrote in message

> > namaste;

> How many ahve you been to ??? and who can verify this ??? and when wa the last time you were at a National ???

Since moving to New York City three years ago i have attended the potlucks and monthly get-togethers with the New York family. I've been to two regionals and a couple of councils in Vermont. i couldn't attend Michigan Annual becuse of work committments, and last year i threw out my back lifting stage equipment and couldn't attend Utah. I've been going to gatherings since Idaho in the early 80s. Missed a few over the year (like when i was in Europe) but never quite going to gatherings because of politics, or fear. i'm considering attending Ocala in Febuary, and my Italian princess and i will be in California for next year's Annual - god willing.

> And the joke continues

Karmically, the joke, my friend, is on you.

> More creative and interactive ways to teaching and learning need to be used; role plays, story telling circles, councils. Groups like Art and Revoloution, Reclaim the streets and the Living River in Quebec have brought art, dance, drums, creativity and mobility to street actions and have developed mobile and fluid street tactics while embodying the joy peace and shared abundance of the world that we are trying to create

Ah!

stella.... have missed you, your positivity! Question, though. Those in Quebec-- how goes the revolution for independence, eh?

leah

William O'Leary <wole...@compu-savers.net> wrote in message news:<s43Lb.32553$IM3.9...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> For the past 6 months people have been bitching, moaning and whining becuz nobody would post the names of those working with the USFS and the "National Rainbow Management Team".
> Now here it is I post 6 names out of the 10 people involved and yet nobody has anything to say.... I guess you really didn't want those names after all.

The Meeting took place today. I will very briefly give you my take. There is now way I can get into details with my fingers.

First to respond to some contention about the difficulty of finding out where it was to be held. I couldn't make it to hippie hill friday but luckily I tuned into Diamond Dave's radio show late Thursday...I repeat, Thursday...he had a few Rainbow "brothers" on the show. I think Barry and few others...that was pretty cool. It was like a few minutes. But he actually announced that it was at the Page Street Library right as I was calling the station to ask David if they knew yet. Regardless, I can't imagine arriving here on Friday after the hippie hill meeting, and not having anyone's cell number. If you are not part of this particular circle....no way to find the meeting. Unless someone posted it Friday nite?? This is not sufficient. Admittedly, I did not bring this up at the meeting....for a couple of reasons...but I digress.

Notice, I keep saying "meeting" because that is how it felt to me. This is not necessarily a negative comment.

So all the people on the supposed RMT "list" were there and more....I went because I sincerely believe it is our best interest to talk to these people who represent the bureaucratic agencies that we have to inevitably deal with and because I wanted to witness one of these councils with the forest service for myself. I have to say that if any of our "secret leaders" many of whom were there are conspiring and secretly meeting with the FS, it wasn't evident today. They would have to be most excellent actors. And I would have to say that all of the viewpoints represented here on agr and on the land were pretty well represented. Yeah, yeah, this isn't a representative democracy. Nevertheless, all points of view were voiced with the exception of those who don't believe in communicating the FS at all. The permit was discussed for two hours....mostly civil and very articulate views were expressed. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT I DIDN'T HEAR ONE PERSON ADVOCATE SIGNING A PERMIT....it doesn't look like it is going to happen this year. There was just a hint that someone might be willing but I don't see it happening.

The bigwigs were there, I'll let someone with their full names and titles post that....they answered our questions and responded thoughtfully. Of course there was some double talk but there were some real responses to questions. There really does seem to be a willingness to have a fresh start this year. Malcolm is out so it's a good time, and someone pointed that out to them. Believe me, there were people who pointed out to them that they have hindered us from having a safe and healthy gathering by harassing people who liason with them and folkalize other things. The level of distrust among many of us was definitely communicated. I don't know what else to say without getting into details of what the FS said. Basically, they know we will have a gathering whether or not they consider it "illegal" or "legal" (permit or no permit) and the fs claim they will work with us either way, but the leo dude won't commit to the ticketing issue if a permit is not signed....the leo dude said he didn't know what would happen with the ticketing of cars and people. tho he did say he was committed to keeping it peaceful this year.

Like I said, I didn't smell secret meetings....that's just my take. Not necessarily the reality.

William O'Leary <wole...@compu-savers.net> wrote in message news:<BZiLb.16615$6B.8...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> bodhi wrote:

> > Old and in the way, eh?? How many regionals have you been to lately?

> How many ahve you been to ??? and who can verify this ??? and when wa the last time you were at a National ???

> > namaste;

> And the joke continues

i want to give a big thank you for posting the names of all the power trippers im always glad to give thim a nice go fuck your self! whin i see them on the trail. im just wondering if we will be able to tell who they are this year at national. will thay have horses this year? lol.seeing all the leos practley standing in trade circle makes me sick. so many people being fucked with by leos. thank you permit signers.... not! so here is another chance to say hay barry and the rest of your butt buddys,,... GO FUCK YOURSELF!!! taco mike from s.u.r.f.

quie...@charter.net (quient5) wrote:

> i want to give a big thank you for posting the names of all the power trippers im always glad to give thim a nice go fuck your self! whin i see them on the trail. im just wondering if we will be able to tell who they are this year at national. will thay have horses this year? lol.seeing all the leos practley standing in trade circle makes me sick. so many people being fucked with by leos. thank you permit signers.... not! so here is another chance to say hay barry and the rest of your butt buddys,,... GO FUCK YOURSELF!!! taco mike from s.u.r.f.

Well I WILL go fuck myself, thank you... and you go fuck yourself too!!!

-BB

> taco mike from s.u.r.f.

that you Taco Mike?

ain't seen ya years.

where and how the hell ya been?

Jay wrote:

> Like I said, I didn't smell secret meetings....that's just my take. Not necessarily the reality.

very good report there j. seems our founding fathers signed a permit for us when they drafted the constitution and that is no secret. :-) ^2

barney602...@yahoo.com (Jay) wrote in message news:<636ab3c.0401110203.5c461...@posting.google.com>...

> The Meeting took place today. I will very briefly give you my take. There is now way I can get into details with my fingers.
...
> Like I said, I didn't smell secret meetings....that's just my take. Not necessarily the reality.
> J.

This confirms two previous points I have been making, "knowing who was in SF to attend this meeting there was little to worry about, there remains the concern about how this meeting was brought about."

Put together in secret, and kept secret forcing folks to jump through hoops. I advised Scottie to send his statement to the library - others could have done the same had there been TIMELY NOTICE or HONEST COMMUNICATION.

I've said over and over, it's not where we go or necessarily what we do but how. - It's the process that matters for it is all that, collectively, we are, or all there is when it comes to Rainbow.

I'm glad that things went well, but the promoters of this deserve no credit and surely aren't hero's of any nature. The two hero's of this meeting were, in no particular order, the brother who showed up, didn't know anyone, said he didn't even know if those "Rainbows" present even went to Gathering as he had never seen any of them there, but of the thousands of folks he knows and sees at Gathering none wanted any permits.

The other hero was Chicken of whom it is said got the only "non-professional" response from the Bureaucrats present i.e. a smile out of Officer Farrel.

The end does not justify the means.

The only real clarity or understanding to be reached at this event is; No one wants to sign or have a permit. Doesn't look like another signing will be tried this year. The FS Resource Folks will work with Gatherers to have a safe and healthy Gathering, and the LEOs will consider the Gathering illegal without a signed permit. It has been said that they "LEOs" want to Keep things peaceful.

It appears that -internally i.e. amongst Gatherers- people are beginning to understand, what for years has been professed, in truth "no one can speak for anyone else."

This truth includes acting for, signing for, or representing anyone, or the whole of the Gathering in any way.

Maybe (read hopefully) this re-awakening will flow over to other areas. The most apparent and current would be that of meetings and other communications. Let me say, as I do on the phone, "all this phone communication is fine, but there are acknowledged and public forums (mediums, venues, technological what-have-yous') where these conversations should also be aired, and conclusions -of phone co-ordinations- SHOULD be "MADE FUCKING PUBLIC!"

All the equipment is available in San Francisco and the technical expertise exists (within the "family") to have had this meeting on one of those computer telecasts.

It would be helpful to remember that we dialogue in a circle, (both physically and virtually) with the idea of hearing from everyone, (not only those who are in agreement) obtaining as much information as possible, as one never knows from where a solution or beneficial idea may come.

We had enough examples of how not to do things. This weekends events are just two more. Let me be generous and call this weekends events -one event

Principle wrote:

> This confirms two previous points I have been making, "knowing who was in SF to attend this meeting there was
...
have a safe and healthy Gathering, and the LEOs will consider the Gathering illegal without a signed permit.

They swear to uphold the US Constitution which expressly states that peaceable assembly is a right, and hypocritically seek to annul that vested right and replace it with a privilege. That's a felony per Title 18 U.S.C.A. Sections 241-242 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/

> It has been said that they "LEOs" want to Keep things peaceful.

I hear hot air out of the Gummint all the time.

> It appears that -internally i.e. amongst Gatherers- people are beginning to understand, what for years has been professed, in truth "no one can speak for anyone else."

HO!

> This truth includes acting for, signing for, or representing anyone or the whole of the Gathering in any way.
> Maybe (read hopefully) this re-awakening will flow over to other areas. The most apparent and current would be that
...
obtaining as much information as possible, as one never knows from where a solution or beneficial idea may come.

I don't see a solution to the Permit requirement happening unless the checks and balances the Framers hoped would work start working. Right now the courts are rubber stamps for any off the wall legislation and the legislature is a rubber stamp of executive whimsy. "Necessity is the plea of tyrants and the creed of slaves." - Pitt

> We had enough examples of how not to do things. This weekends events are just two more. Let me be generous and call this weekends events -one event-

You are too kind....

Sanity

Taco Mike? Hey you heard anything about Mountain from Maine?

-woodstock-

Jay wrote:

> First to respond to some contention about the difficulty of finding out where it was to be held. I couldn't make it to hippie hill friday but luckily I tuned into Diamond Dave's radio show late Thursday...I repeat, Thursday...he had a few Rainbow "brothers" on the show. I think Barry and few others...that was pretty cool.

Hmmm, here's a question (since I live in San Antonio I have no way of hearing this show) did those that were on this show present themselves as individuals or as representing the "Rainbow Family" ??

> It was like a few minutes. But he actually announced that it was at the Page Street Library right as I was calling the station to ask David if they knew yet. Regardless, I can't imagine arriving here on Friday after the hippie hill meeting, and not having anyone's cell number. If you are not part of this particular circle....no way to find the meeting.

What "cirlce" do you speak of ???

> Unless someone posted it Friday nite?? This is not sufficient. Admittedly, I did not bring this up at the meeting....for a couple of reasons...but I digress.

Actually, the meeting place was announced on this group at 9:30 Friday night.

> Notice, I keep saying "meeting" because that is how it felt to me. This is not necessarily a negative comment.

That is our perspective.

> So all the people on the supposed RMT "list" were there and more....

Well, then I guess that kinda confirms what I said

> I went because I sincerely believe it is our best interest to talk to these people who represent the bureaucratic agencies that we have to inevitably deal with and because I wanted to witness one of these councils with the forest service for myself.

This was not a council

> I have to say that if any of our "secret leaders" many of whom were there are conspiring and secretly meeting with the FS, it wasn't evident today.

And if you had sat in Spring Clown Show in Utah and did not knwo about such things it would not appear as such then eirther.

> They would have to be most excellent actors.

Not actors but people really good at laying the bullshit down.

> And I would have to say that all of the viewpoints represented here on agr and on the land were pretty well represented. Yeah, yeah, this isn't a representative democracy.

really, and who spoke for me ??? how represented my POV ???

> Nevertheless, all points of view were voiced with the exception of those who don't believe in communicating the FS at all.

I have no problem dealing wiht the resource pholks.... hell, I had a great time with Bernard and Larry in Utah.... as did most that came in contact with them.

BUT, the USFS says that is order to talk to the resource pholks there needs to be a permit signed.... no permit, no contact.

> The permit was discussed for two hours....mostly civil and very articulate views were expressed. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT I DIDN'T HEAR ONE PERSON ADVOCATE SIGNING A PERMIT....it doesn't look like it is going to happen this year. There was just a hint that someone might be willing but I don't see it happening.

A permit would not be signed at this meeting.... sure, talk of it was bound to happen.... do you seriously trust people like Barry Adams, Garrick Beck, Jeff Kline and Brian Michaels ??? if so you are blind.

> The bigwigs were there, I'll let someone with their full names and titles post that....they answered our questions and responded thoughtfully. Of course there was some double talk but there were some real responses to questions.

They will say anything is these meetings.... they will tell you exactly what you think you want ot hear

> There really does seem to be a willingness to have a fresh start this year.

to me fresh start means the permit regulations are gone and nobdy is hassled for being at a Gathering.... if that is not to be then there will be no fresh start

> Malcolm is out so it's a good time, and someone pointed that out to them.

You are joking right ??? so, now that Malcom is gone there will be no LEOs at Gatherings.... there will be a renewed peace at Gatherings now that Malcom is gone.... gimme a break.

> Believe me, there were people who pointed out to them that they have hindered us from having a safe and healthy gathering by harassing people who liason with them and folkalize other things.

they don't ahssle the people that want to work with them.... they hassle everyone else so that others thinking that they are doing the right thing choose to work with them thinking that can abate the harassment from the LEOs.... funny thing is that as Utah proved a signed permit does not abate the harassment and presence of the LEOs but it only gives them more right to come in and fuck with people.

> The level of distrust among many of us was definitely communicated.

The only people I do not trust are the LEOs and the NRMT.... other than that I can hang with the resource pholks and those that do not sign permits.

> I don't know what else to say without getting into details of what the FS said.

I personally would request that you go into detail

> Basically, they know we will have a gathering whether or not they consider it "illegal" or "legal" (permit or no permit) and the fs claim they will work with us either way,

If you believe that I have some land in the southern most part of Florida I would like to sell you.... no, it's not swamp or marsh.

> but the leo dude won't commit to the ticketing issue if a permit is not signed....the leo dude said he didn't know what would happen with the ticketing of cars and people. tho he did say he was committed to keeping it peaceful this year.

Right, like they did in Utah ??? let me make this simple for you.... if no permit is signed people will receive tickets for being in violation of the permit regulations.

> Like I said, I didn't smell secret meetings....that's just my take. Not necessarily the reality.

Yup, it's not reality.... becuz I'm not sure if you know about what people were doing behind closed doors before and after this meeting took place.... are you aware of the several conference calls that have taken place between the end of the Utah event and this meeting ???

Not to be offensive but open your eyes and see what is going on.

--
All the best for LESS !!!
Compu-Savers
http://www.compu-savers.net

...
> I'm glad that things went well, but the promoters of this deserve no credit and surely aren't hero's of any nature. The two hero's of this meeting were, in no particular order, the brother who showed up, didn't know anyone, said he didn't even know if those "Rainbows" present even went to Gathering as he had never seen any of them there, but of the thousands of folks he knows and sees at Gathering none wanted any permits.
...

Hey Stephen, I think you are referring to me, the one who said I didn't know anyone in the room and that 14,000 other people like myself were going to attend this year regardless of what was going to happen in that room or in subsequent meetings. Well, I'm definitely the "hero" you are speaking of but seriously I don't see myself that way. Thanks though, makes me feel better, because I thought I sounded like an asshole as I was nervous and didn't articulate myself nearly as well as I can.........I'm quite capable after making presentations to lawyers (as a paralegal) and teaching school, but somehow I lost it and got nervous. Now, even if I articulated much better, I still wouldn't see myself that way. But you certainly fed my ego so after the shitty day I had yesterday here in SF, waking up to see your post made me feel, well, much better. Lifted my spirits. Thanks.

To be clear, I actually did recognize people, like Karin and Carla and Barry and others I have seen around, but Diamond Dave and Elvis Loves You (don't even know his real name) are the only two I have ever talked to at length so the point remains the same. Oh, I think her name is Dose Me, picked her up hitchhiking once.....just trying to clarify. Still my point stands.

In general women were the heros Saturday. Karin, Carla, another woman whose name slips my mind were amazing. Also, the guy, shit, what's his name, the grey haired hippie lawyer who spoke for Garrick, was absolutely great. And everyone else who spoke. I'm proud to be associated with these people. Plunker was a great moderator too even if he wasn't officially that. And Stubbs for all his bullshit was in retrospect an integral part of that meeting even if at the time he was really annoying me. He kept things real so to speak.

I'd like to say that I don't have the commitment that most of the other folks show by traveling twenty hours through horrible weather or flying in for a four hour meeting. I was just fortunate that it was in my town. I just wish more young people were there. I felt young there and I ain't as young as I look.

Finally, I must admit something that I am afraid was a mistake: A friend of mine who works for the San Francisco Bay Guardian emailed me that she had caught wind of a "Rainbow Gathering event" at hippie hill and wanted to know if she should put in the Guardian calendar. After thinking about it I told her no. I was afraid that people might get pissed off because they didn't want the council to turn into a GG Park drum circle. Bun in hindsight it might have gotten more people there. I dunno.

Jay

Jay wrote:

[SNIP]

> the one who said I didn't know anyone in the room and that 14,000 other people like myself were going to attend this year regardless of what was going to happen in that room or in subsequent meetings.

OK, so these 14,000 people gave you permission to speak for them ??? can you provide proof that even 14 of them gave you permission ???

> I'm quite capable after making presentations to lawyers (as a paralegal)

I am a PL as well.... as such you should know the legal ramifications of signing a permit

It's called exercising power of attorney without prior consent.

--
All the best for LESS !!!
Compu-Savers
http://www.compu-savers.net

William O'Leary <wole...@compu-savers.net> wrote in message news:<DeAMb.4327$q4.3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> Jay wrote:

> > First to respond to some contention about the difficulty of finding out where it was to be held. I couldn't make it to hippie hill friday but luckily I tuned into Diamond Dave's radio show late Thursday...I repeat, Thursday...he had a few Rainbow "brothers" on the show. I think Barry and few others...that was pretty cool.

> Hmmm, here's a question (since I live in San Antonio I have no way of hearing this show) did those that were on this show present themselves as individuals or as representing the "Rainbow Family" ??

> > It was like a few minutes. But he actually announced that it was at the Page Street Library right as I was calling the station to ask David if they knew yet. Regardless, I can't imagine arriving here on Friday after the hippie hill meeting, and not having anyone's cell number. If you are not part of this particular circle....no way to find the meeting.

> What "cirlce" do you speak of???

I would include in that circle the people who arranged the meeting and the people who were at hippie hill, if you didn't check agr or have one of their numbers then finding it would have been difficult.

> > Unless someone posted it Friday nite?? This is not sufficient.

> > Admittedly, I did not bring this up at the meeting....for a couple of reasons...but I digress.

> Actually, the meeting place was announced on this group at 9:30 Friday night.

I didn't see it posted, my mistake.

> > Notice, I keep saying "meeting" because that is how it felt to me. This is not necessarily a negative comment.

> That is our perspective.

????

> So all the people on the supposed RMT "list" were there and more....
> Well, then I guess that kinda confirms what I said

I wouldn't know, I usually don't read your posts.

> > I went because I sincerely believe it is our best interest to talk to these people who represent the bureaucratic agencies that we have to inevitably deal with and because I wanted to witness one of these councils with the forest service for myself.

> This was not a council

fine, whatever.

> > I have to say that if any of our "secret leaders" many of whom were there are conspiring and secretly meeting with the FS, it wasn't evident today.

> And if you had sat in Spring Clown Show in Utah and did not knwo about such things it would not appear as such then eirther. They would have to be most excellent actors. Not actors but people really good at laying the bullshit down.

What I meant was that from the discourse I heard, it was apparent that there was no way most of these people had been communicating with the FS...it was too much like a first meeting....people talking basics...maybe people have been meeting with FS people not at that meeting but not those particular people. sorry, I think you are wrong but I am in no way saying that it isn't possible that a couple of those people had had previous communications...certainly most people hadn't.

> > And I would have to say that all of the viewpoints represented here on agr and on the land were pretty well represented. Yeah, yeah, this isn't a representative democracy.

> really, and who spoke for me ??? how represented my POV ???

thank god, not a person except Gary tried the baiting that you do here, one is enough.

> > Nevertheless, all points of view were voiced with the exception of those who don't believe in communicating the FS at all.

> I have no problem dealing wiht the resource pholks.... hell, I had a great time with Bernard and Larry in Utah.... as did most that came in contact with them.
> BUT, the USFS says that is order to talk to the resource pholks there needs to be a permit signed.... no permit, no contact.

they promised that that would not be true this year.

> > The permit was discussed for two hours....mostly civil and very articulate views were expressed. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT I DIDN'T HEAR ONE PERSON ADVOCATE SIGNING A PERMIT....it doesn't look like it is going to happen this year. There was just a hint that someone might be willing but I don't see it happening.

> A permit would not be signed at this meeting.... sure, talk of it was bound to happen.... do you seriously trust people like Barry Adams, Garrick Beck, Jeff Kline and Brian Michaels ??? if so you are blind.

I never said that it would be signed at saturdays meeting. read my statement again.

> > The bigwigs were there, I'll let someone with their full names and titles post that....they answered our questions and responded thoughtfully. Of course there was some double talk but there were some real responses to questions.

> They will say anything is these meetings.... they will tell you exactly what you think you want ot hear

maybe but maybe you should let people experience stuff themselves...oh, I see you don't trust these people at all so I should take that at face value and not try to communicate myself....sorry buddy this gathering will be in my home state this year.....or maybe Utah or Nevada I guess.

> > There really does seem to be a willingness to have a fresh start this year.

> to me fresh start means the permit regulations are gone and nobdy is hassled for being at a Gathering.... if that is not to be then there will be no fresh start

point: almost everyone who spoke at the meeting spoke out against the permit regs. That's a fact.

> > Malcolm is out so it's a good time, and someone pointed that out to them.

> You are joking right??? so, now that Malcom is gone there will be no LEOs at Gatherings.... there will be a renewed peace at Gatherings now that Malcom is gone.... gimme a break.

did I say that???? sheesh, I'll reread my post but I think you are trying to do to me what I have seen you do to others....It won't work, fellow paralegal.

> > Believe me, there were people who pointed out to them that they have hindered us from having a safe and healthy gathering by harassing people who liason with them and folkalize other things.

> they don't ahssle the people that want to work with them.... they hassle everyone else so that others thinking that they are doing the right thing choose to work with them thinking that can abate the harassment from the LEOs.... funny thing is that as Utah proved a signed permit does not abate the harassment and presence of the LEOs but it only gives them more right to come in and fuck with people.

> > The level of distrust among many of us was definitely communicated.

> The only people I do not trust are the LEOs and the NRMT.... other than that I can hang with the resource pholks and those that do not sign permits.

again you are twisting stuff so let me clarify...the level of distrust I referred to was in reference to LEO's and upper management of FS not the resource people who we (I) have always had good relations with.

> > I don't know what else to say without getting into details of what the FS said.

> I personally would request that you go into detail

Nope. I think my summary is fine. People did record it.

> > Basically, they know we will have a gathering whether or not they consider it "illegal" or "legal" (permit or no permit) and the fs claim they will work with us either way,

> If you believe that I have some land in the southern most part of Florida I would like to sell you.... no, it's not swamp or marsh.

I'll take it. does it have a camp?

> > but the leo dude won't commit to the ticketing issue if a permit is not signed....the leo dude said he didn't know what would happen with the ticketing of cars and people. tho he did say he was committed to keeping it peaceful this year.

> Right, like they did in Utah??? let me make this simple for you.... if no permit is signed people will receive tickets for being in violation of the permit regulations.

you are making it simple for me?

> > Like I said, I didn't smell secret meetings....that's just my take. Not necessarily the reality.

> Yup, it's not reality.... becuz I'm not sure if you know about what people were doing behind closed doors before and after this meeting took place.... are you aware of the several conference calls that have taken place between the end of the Utah event and this meeting ???
> Not to be offensive but open your eyes and see what is going on.

you'r always offensive, but that's ok. I can be too. Just had a huge fight with a friend about this. Anyway, I am quite aware of all the shenanigans that have been going on and accusations of conspiracy....I don't believe the people who say nothing is going on in that regard nor do I believe your extreme take on this RMT thing. I'll figure it out for myself, thanks much though.

> Jay wrote:
> [SNIP]

> > the one who said I didn't know anyone in the room and that 14,000 other people like myself were going to attend this year regardless of what was going to happen in that room or in subsequent meetings.

William O'Leary <wole...@compu-savers.net> wrote in message news:<uSBMb.5421$i4.4...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> OK, so these 14,000 people gave you permission to speak for them ??? can you provide proof that even 14 of them gave you permission ???

god damn, you are one dense motherfucker. didn't your hear? last year 14,000 rainbows voted for me to represent them. I ran for rainbow rep under the rainbow name "Sir Brother".

> > I'm quite capable after making presentations > to lawyers (as a paralegal)

> I am a PL as well.... as such you should know the legal ramifications of signing a permit
> It's called exercising power of attorney without prior consent.

So you have a problem if I decide to sign one this year??? I was thinking of showing up right as things really heat up with the FS, signing it and then bolting over to Shasta to do some hiking. What do you think?

"Jay" <barney602...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:636ab3c.0401121743.6901c...@posting.google.com...

> William O'Leary <wole...@compu-savers.net> wrote in message news:<DeAMb.4327$q4.3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> > Jay wrote:
> > > First to respond to some contention about the difficulty of finding out where it was to be held. I couldn't make it to hippie hill friday but luckily I tuned into Diamond Dave's radio show late Thursday...I repeat, Thursday...he had a few Rainbow "brothers" on the show. I think Barry and few others...that was pretty cool.

I have a question you might could answer having attended "The" meeting with FS and all those interested in such- Is there any point in having things like scouting and/or Spring Council anymore? Have all these or any of these attendees decided that it (the gathering) will be in California or some other place already decided by FS and/or meeting attendees?

-woodstock-

barney602...@yahoo.com (Jay) wrote:

> So you have a problem if I decide to sign one this year??? I was thinking of showing up right as things really heat up with the FS, signing it and then bolting over to Shasta to do some hiking. What do you think?

Hey, dude, welcome home to a.g.r.! I hope to be reading a lot of you in the future...

-Butterfly Bill

http://members.isp.com/farfallab...@isp.com/BB.htm

> It's called exercising power of attorney without prior consent.

Notice to all parties of concern. As of this date NO ONE has announced any intent to sign a permit for this years gathering. Quite the opposite many have, when directly, openly, asked in councils and circles, remained silent, attesting to their unwillingness to sign. One person, of known honest integrity, has publicly announced he will personally file suit against anyone voluntarily signing a permit on the grounds stated above.

woodstock wrote:

> I have a question you might could answer having attended "The" meeting with FS and all those interested in such- Is there any point in having things like scouting and/or Spring Council anymore? Have all these or any of these attendees decided that it (the gathering) will be in California or some other place already decided by FS and/or meeting attendees?
> -woodstock-

Simply put:

Yes, it is worth it to plug in -- a C0-Operations council approach, open to all, will be once again attempted this year. No, no one has decided where the gathering will be, there will be an honest attempt of co-operation with the USFS for site search, however the final decision will be made on the land, at spring council, by the folks who are there.

Butterfly Bill <farfallab...@myappendixisp.com> wrote in message news:<Xns946ED95E49836farfallab...@65.100.3.61>...

> Hey, dude, welcome home to a.g.r.! I hope to be reading a lot of you in the future...

Thanks BB, I won't be checking newsgroups this week....too busy, so won't have to hear me chime in again about the "council". I don't have much more to say anyway.

If my semantics made it seem like I was trying to "represent" a group of people at the council, it was only a poor choice of words. I know better. I throw that out now in case I am on the receiving end of reprimands this week.

now, I gotta sign off, and go on with my life.

Jay wrote:

> The Meeting took place today. I will very briefly give you my take. There is now way I can get into details with my
...

My .02 cents -- The meeting did in deed take place. A lot of words were exchanged. Did it mean anything? Over the years I've sat in a lot of meetings with a lot of USFS folks and heard a lot of talk. I guess we'll know exactly what it meant when the first USFS LEO vehicle comes rolling in to spring council. If the lights are flashing we'll know it didn't mean shit.

"Sailor" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:40043BF6.ED798...@earthlink.net...

> Simply put:
> Yes, it is worth it to plug in -- a C0-Operations council approach, open to all, will be once again attempted this year. No, no one has decided where the gathering will be, there will be an honest attempt of co-operation with the USFS for site search, however the final decision will be made on the land, at spring council, by the folks who are there.

Was last year a good example of how you say it will work this year?

-woodstock-

--
Hey man- check out Hip eBay :
http://www.hipebay.hipplanet.com

> Jay wrote:

> > Like I said, I didn't smell secret meetings....that's just my take. Not necessarily the reality.

Short and sweet -- what I was told about how this meeting came about.

Mark Rey, who attended the gathering in Utah last summer, mentioned to Garrick they should get together before next summer, Sept. was mentioned. In Sept. Mr. Rey suggested that Jowers was retiring as of Jan.1 and perhaps a meeting was better delayed till this time. Garrick called a few folks and it all got put together. Was the timing good? was there adequate pre meeting announcement? was the location for the meeting found early enough? IMHO -- NO, but there are a lot of things that happen in rainbow land that aren't exactly planned or put together in any "conventional" manner. As to any RMT for this year, I think that concept has pretty well been deflated unless you want to add the 40 to 60 folks who came to S.F. to the "list" and disregard the concept of Co-operations councils that will be held openly and continually from now till we sit on the land. As an added note, the new head of the USFS ICT has not yet been selected. Apparently it is a job that one applies for and is then selected on some criteria basis unknown.

woodstock wrote:

> Was last year a good example of how you say it will work this year?
> -woodstock-

I can not say, I wasn't there last year. I understand Garrick (as an individual or with a small select group) worked in advance with the USFS, to what extend I don't know. I honestly believe the process will be as open to all this year as it can be.

"Sailor" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:40044F7D.DEA65...@earthlink.net...

> I can not say, I wasn't there last year. I understand Garrick (as an individual or with a small select group) worked in advance with the USFS, to what extend I don't know. I honestly believe the process will be as open to all this year as it can be.

Hope you're right.

-woodstock-

--
Hey man- check out Hip eBay
http://www.hipebay.hipplanet.com

William O'Leary <wole...@compu-savers.net> wrote in message news:<DeAMb.4327$q4.3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> Jay wrote:

> Hmmm, here's a question (since I live in San Antonio I have no way of hearing this show) did those that were on this show present themselves as individuals or as representing the "Rainbow Family"??

Billy, I think this brother can give you a run for the money, "god damn, you are one dense motherfucker."

I just have to chuckle:)

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