A Meeting in San Francisco

On January 10, 2004, there was a meeting of about 40 regular attendees of Rainbow Gatherings and 5 high-level officials of the U.S. Forest Service in the Haight-Ashbury Public Library in San Francisco, California. This followed another circle of just Rainbow folks the previous day that started in Golden Gate Park and moved to a house in the Mission district because of rain. This second meeting was the subject of several intense threads on alt.gathering.rainbow.

I feel these posts show a good slice of Rainbow for someone who may not be familiar with the kind of things that the Family’s many individuals feel are important and become issues, and the range of the more basic ideological and philosophical views that lead to these feelings. Most of the basic positions various people hold about the Forest Service and permits are shown here, and most of the basic attitudes about government, leadership, and laws.

I have gathered them together here into one document, converting them from web pages produced by Google Advanced Groups Search. I have made no changes or corrections to anybody’s posts, with this exception: I have shortened quoted sections, since in some cases people quoted entire posts, including quotes of quotes therein, and to reproduce all of these would make the document way too long. In most such cases, I have indicated where I have done so with three dots (...)

This is the kind of discussion that went on in alt.gathering.rainbow daily during the 1990s and early 2000s, and it reflects much of the talk you hear in person today in council circles and ordinary conversations at gatherings. There are all kinds at Rainbow, and you can see a lot of them in these posts.

– Butterfly Bill

From: Dan Farkas (dfar...@ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-21 19:25:10 PST
Newsgroups: alt.gathering.rainbow

It seems there is a lot of a big to-do about the Rainbow bank and office for the national gathering. At T-day council we decided there would be a cooperations council to handle such matters. So after consulting with several folks I’m calling for a cooperations council meeting in the bay area (site tbd) for Saturday January 10 starting at rainbow noon. Topics for agenda include bank council, po box location and......

From: gary stubbs (rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-22 12:25:27 PST

dfar...@ix.netcom.com (Dan Farkas) wrote in message news:<a2445880.0312211925.21d0c...@posting.google.com>...

> Howdy Folks,
> It seems there is a lot of a big to-do about the Rainbow bank and office for the national gathering. At T-day
...

Ive heard rumours that there will me a meeting witih the usfs high muckie mucks on jan 10...what do youknow .....??...but I isurely support a co-ops counicl as soon as possible...maybe we should have the shanta sena council regrading gregs stealing at the same time ...but I think the central valley would be a better choice or locations

From: Principle (matte...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-22 15:24:29 PST

> > One, I would think the best time for this type meeting would be around Gathering time.
> > Two, when the hell is the meeting. Not your hippie hill confab, but, the Meeting you are referring to.

> Howdy, best time for this meeting is whenever.. it would be good if from this meeting another meeting was held "in Gathering"... sat the 10th is the meeting... where, and exactly when is forthcoming.. i don’t know yet... but be at Hippie Hill... and find out for sure...
beap

One, I don’t know about anyone else, but after the holidays money is short for me. Two, It was made perfectly clear at TGC that none of the Professed, Purported, or Accused Factions were acceptable for an Office, Post Office Box, and there was no need for a Bank and Bankers, and in any case, none of the previous bankers, present at TGC, would be acceptable.

It was pointed out; There were no notes from last years TGC because "the scribes" wanted to sanitize the notes that were to be sent out. At other councils, when asked to see the notes, one brother scribe said he never took verbatim notes. He only wrote down the general feeling as he saw it, and later refused to show his notes, or that which was consented to, claiming they were his personal notes. He had volunteered to be one of the scribes at the council and exerted control over the other two scribes there after.

It was further pointed out that a couple at last years TGC volunteered to be the POB, and it was the sister who, last year, collected the email addresses of those at TGC, agreeing to email the list to everyone on it. She is the only person who lived up to any agreement to share information from last years TGC.

This brother and sister, from the Weed-Shasta Area, again this year, volunteered to open a post office box for the Annual Gathering. This is when Greg started screaming, from outside the circle, that the person speaking had spoken for too long, and he -Gregie- had heard enough.

So, the person speaking left, assuring the circle that the stated block would not be removed, and the person should be notified when another consensus was asked for in regards to the office, bank, or post office box.

Now this whole "co-operations" thingie is just a means by which the players can have what was denied them in open council. Not that doing things through an open council called co-operations is not a good thing, but when it is a smoke screen, for ill intent, it becomes unacceptable.

The only excuse that anyone has come up with for not accepting the offer from this brother and sister is: There is only them- there are no other family in the area. I personally find this difficult to believe. Are they really the only family in the Shasta Area?

Now - There is even a larger issue on the horizon. The date requested happens to be the very date that the Forest Service Rainbow Management Team, Mark Ray, and the rainbow permit administration team want to hold a meeting in the Oakland-SanFrancisco Area. Are those claiming to be setting up "co-operations" involved in this other "officials" meeting?

Now Dan, I am not directing any of this towards you. However, if I were you, I would consider through whom, and how it came about that you are posting this, rather than one of the players who post here regularly. You have my number if you care to discuss anything.

From: Potassius (Potass...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-22 19:55:05 PST

Thanks for the ‘heads-up’ on the Jan 10th meeting in the Bay Area. It seems that any cooperations-level meeting in the SJ area should be deferred until after the NRMT meeting with Mark Rey.

Can you pick me up in Redding, CA, on your way to the USFS ‘dreemteem’ glob ?

It would be appreciated; otherwise, a long lonely drive, but it’ll be a gass ! Want to be there !

From: gary stubbs (rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-29 13:04:33 PST

Potass...@webtv.net (Potassius) wrote in message news:<8205-3FE7B96D-...@storefull-2236.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> SP -
> Thanks for the ‘heads-up’ on the Jan 10th meeting in the Bay Area. It seems that any cooperations-level meeting in the SJ area should be deferred until after the NRMT meeting with Mark Rey.
...

heres that imaginary nrmt...who is t he nrmt..and whos on it ....I see you folkd talking about this imaginary group.....but no one seems to know whos on it ...could it just be someones delustion

From: Karin Zirk (kz...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-29 17:41:48 PST

> > SP -
> > Thanks for the ‘heads-up’ on the Jan 10th meeting in the Bay Area. It seems that any cooperations-level meeting in the SJ area should be deferred until after the NRMT meeting with Mark Rey.

> Potass...@webtv.net (Potassius) wrote in message news:<8205-3FE7B96D-...@storefull-2236.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

Actually, the cooperations council has been rescheduled to January 11 so as to be the day after the individuals with concerns about USFS regulations meet with Mark Rey.

From: gary stubbs (rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-29 22:25:37 PST

Karin Zirk <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FF0D7DF.3...@earthlink.net>...

> Actually, the cooperations council has been rescheduled to January 11 so as to be the day after the individuals with concerns about USFS regulations meet with Mark Rey.
> Location to be announced.

doesnt that make thing kinda difficult ..for anyone ....who would have to travel far to make either meeting....for myself criving to the bay area 2 days in a row gets expensive and Im quite sure its the same for alot of others as well

From: Dan Farkas (dfar...@ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-30 13:32:59 PST

Yes the Cooperations Councl is rescheduled until January 11 in the bay area site tbd. Sorry, I forgot to post this here.

From: Principle (matte...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-30 21:25:06 PST

dfar...@ix.netcom.com (Dan Farkas) wrote in message news:<a2445880.0312301332.27d02...@posting.google.com>...

> Yes the Cooperations Councl is rescheduled until January 11 in the bay area site tbd. Sorry, I forgot to post this here.

Who exactly is calling this meeting? Do those calling this meeting claim to be "co-operations"?

I do not want this meeting at this time number one. Number two; I would like to see an agenda for this meeting, whenever it is. And, three, no meeting should be called in order for a few players to achieve what was denied them at TGC.

As for Gary’s question about who is the rainbow management team - they are FS Personnel who claim to manage the Gathering. i.e. Malcolm, WhatsHerName, and some regional supervisors, rangers, etc. There is a list of some of the people’s names. Hername Ann Something.

The Permit Management Team is basically Garrick, his two co-conspirators and permit promoters Jeff Kline and Brian Michaels, who are in regular contact with government entities, and Plunker who simply promotes and observes. They should be at this meeting.

Maybe there should be more time and some discussions between these meetings, or at least there should be some conversations about the Ray Meeting before anyone...

Ann Archie is all I can think of, but I know that is wrong. Oh well, she will think I am intentionally… but, I’m not.

From: JoaneeF (joan...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2003-12-31 05:46:36 PST

> FS Personnel who claim to manage the Gathering. i.e. Malcolm, WhatsHerName, and some regional supervisors, rangers, etc. There is a list of some of the people’s names. Hername Ann Something. Ann Archie is all I can think of, but I know that is wrong.

From: Karin Zirk (kz...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Cooperations Council
Date: 2004-01-08 21:39:45 PST

I’m sadden to hear people condem this circle. I know the people calling it and I trust them to behave honorably.

PS To all you people with such accurate info, I haven’t had a boyfriend in over three years. Get your facts straight.

From: LEproman (lepro...@aol.com)
Subject: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-02 19:25:07 PST

I’m out of pocket and don’t have time to play around on agr searching, so can someone tell me if the time,place and date of the meeting Garrick and Klinehave set up with the USFS is public knowledge yet?

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-02 19:47:46 PST

"LEproman" <lepro...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20040102222447.14277.00002...@mb-m28.aol.com...

> I’m out of pocket and don’t have time to play around on agr searching, so can someone tell me if the time,place and date of the meeting Garrick and Kline have set up with the USFS is public knowledge yet?

From: lonewolf (toa...@email.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-03 14:42:06 PST

"woodstock" <thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<BXqJb.45881$m83.26...@fed1read01>...

From: gary stubbs (rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-03 19:04:23 PST

From: Karin Zirk (kz...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-04 18:51:20 PST

If you, as an individual, are interested in meeting with the head of the USFS, Mark Rey, to discuss regulations pertaining to Group Use of lands managed by the USFS, then you might want to attend this meeting.

Friday, January 9 2004 - Noon at Hippie Hill in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco - get to Haight St and Stanyen Street and enter the park. Head under the bridge and ask for Hippie Hill.

This is a pre-planning meeting. The actual meeting will take place with Mark Rey on Saturday but if you want to find out when and where, you’ll have to show up on Friday.

I’m not organizing this meeting, so if you have questions, email peacetri...@wildrockies.org

For those of you who are planning on being up at way for this meeting, a Cooperations Council will happen on Sunday, January 11 in the same general area. Exact directions tba.

According to Garrick, a meeting has been set-up for those who are interested, want to attend, and/or by choice do attend, between interested individuals and Undersecretary of Agriculture Mark Rey, and a "couple of District Rangers from California, concerning issues in regards to "Rainbow Gatherings".

For those of you who have read my document Redress of Grievances, you know i have been putting in for a meeting to air issues and work things out in peace, with the Forest Service, concerning my Petitions for National Forest Access, circa 2002, and up-coming Redress of Grievances, circa 2003 i.e. Access to national forest public lands for "POPULAR" ‘peaceable assembly for purposes of expression".

I have every intention of attending this meeting, which will, as far as i know, be held on "neutral ground" i.e. somewhere like the University of California, at berkeley, California, etc...

(1) folks wanting to attend, get yourself to san francisco, get help from friends... if posisible, i will do what i can to help whoever

(2) folks who have a strong opinion, viewpoint etc.. about all this, SHOULD ATTEND... air your grievances... PLEASE... LET WHOEVER COMES PLEASE BE SEEKING SOMEWAY TO WORK THINGS OUT WITH THE FOREST SERVICE IN PEACEFUL WAYS...

(3) MEET HIPPIE HILL, JUST INSIDE GOLDEN GATE PARK, NEAR HAIGHT ASHBURY... NOON ON FRIDAY THE 9TH OF JANUARY...

this spot is easy to find... please whoever intends to attend this meeting please come to this circle... communications with one another is essential...

things to be discussed... RESPECT for one another, RESPECT at the meeting... whoever has a viewpoint, please come share it at the Park, then share it with the Forest Service and Mark Rey..

for further information stay tuned... when i have some ot share i will.. this meeting has been a dream of some folks who have worked to arrange it... Jeff Kline and Garrick are two... and these persons should be thanked... for their efforts...

this is an opportunity, for individuals like myself, to make contact with Mark Rey, who attended the Gathering this year, on July 5th...

i would have gladly met with him personally, "in Gathering" but i was with the crew dealing with the death of the young man, brother, who passed away late July 4th, early July 5th.

nevertheless, if you have read my document Redress. you know what i would llike to convey to Mr. Rey... that is...

"District Ranger and/or authrotized officer shall offer an alternative manner of application of 36 CFR 251 to "Annual Rainbow Gathering" and/or to other similar events."

apparently, from garrick has said.. Undersecretary Mark Rey wants to talk about (operational) "issues for this upcoming Gathering" AND "work out ways to REDUCE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT BUDGET BY 50%"

In my Redress you know i have re-outlined to the Forest Service something very familiar... i.e. OPERATION PLAN and if the Forest Service wants a "PERMIT, they can authorize on their own... when they are satisfied of the OPERATION PLAN, worked out "on site" between "Gatherers" and Forest Service, prefarably resource and rec folks et....

I arbitrarily am asking folks to come to "hippie Hill", in Golden Gate Park, because i know the area, and it has big trees to stand under, if necessary...

I am going to be asking, to this Circle of individuals, a request for SOLIDARITY ... i.e. stand together and insist on an appropriate alternative application of the regulation...

I am requesting also there be a couple of speaker phones hooked up for those who are unable to travel but who want to listen in and/or register their viewpoints... technology should be available for this??? also, i will recording and i encourage others to record what is said etc...

INDIVIDUALS WHO COME TO GATHERINGS WHO HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE ISSUES AND MATTERS ARE, HOPEFULLY, COMING TO THIS MEETING..

NO AGREEEMENTS WILL BE BEING MADE BY RAINBOW FAMILY OR EVEN BY ANY OF THE ATTENDING INDIVIDUALS...

HOPEFULLY CERTAIN PRINCIPLES AND GUIDLELINES CONCERNING COMMUNICATIONS AND COOPERATION IS, for me the subjects of the Day....

I have advocated this meeting be announced, be open, be free etc... all things on the table...

to me, the best way to reduce law enforcement is through the "internal processes" of the Gathering are respected... i.e. Shanti Sena, Fire Watch, CALM, Front Gate, etc...

[from what i hear, ""Thanksgiving Council 2003 hereby consensus by silence to carry on the family cooperations process......."]

This is what i know up till now... as of yesterday this meeting has been confirmed...

naturally, the forest service and Agriculture dept get very concerned when ti comes to numbers... it has always been this way...

myself, i trust in the PEOPLE, and the SPIRIT - i don’t believe there will be hundreds of people there, nor thousands... though all the better... move it outside somewhere if necessary... rather, i believe and i have seen, over the years, determined folks will show up...

AND I WOULD HOPE EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO SEEKS TO COME, PLEASE COME TO NOON FRIDAY JANUARY 9TH, HIPPIE HILL GOLDEN GATE PARK...

from what i hear, ""Thanksgiving Council 2003 hereby consensus by silence to carry on the family cooperations process......."

A couple of individuals advocated this meeting... i agree with attending the meeting; for myself as an individual it is something i have requested for many years... and at times, on different levels have met with Forest Servicwe...

I have a definite viewpoint... so have many others... folks outa attend, who advocate strong positions... to both meetings... and folks who intend to go please network with me and others...

any folks who truly object to this meeting... outa for sure come to Hippie Hill on the 9th... and advocate your trip..

regardless, i personally will be attending this meeting... and at the end... will be "officially" filing my Redress of grievance with underSecretary of Agriclutre mark Rey.... "unofficially" i will be sending forest service and rey, a copy of my Redress for them to mull through - soon..... arrangements are forthcoming...

I would hope the Forest Service and Mr. Rey wil take this opportunity to Listen, share, work things out, and when all is said and done... Mr. Rey issues a directive as i indicate in my Redress and uses the "easy alternative"...

this is my personal reasons for making this journey... "Spirit willing and the creek don’t rise".... and i trust in the Spirit and the People (otherwise why be in this Creed of Gathering) so i am asking this msg go to "all points of light"...

up till yesterday this was merely an "idea"... i have begun contacting folks concerning this meeting... outa respect and courtesy, and a prayer for unity i send this....

From: Sanity-Clause (Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 00:06:35 PST

Liberty has been annulled and replaced with license. I do not respect that act or the people who are in on it.

> whoever has a viewpoint, please come share it at the Park, then share it with the Forest Service and Mark Rey..

> for further information stay tuned... when i have some ot share i will.. this meeting has been a dream of some folks who have worked to arrange it... Jeff Kline and Garrick are two... and these persons should be thanked... for their efforts...

Thank you Jeff Kline and Garrick for selling out my rights in favor of your false sense of security, NOT!

> this is an opportunity, for individuals like myself, to make contact with Mark Rey, who attended the Gathering this year, on July 5th...
> i would have gladly met with him personally, "in Gathering" but i was with the crew dealing with the death of the young man, brother, who passed away late July 4th, early July 5th.
> nevertheless, if you have read my document Redress. you know what i would llike to convey to Mr. Rey... that is...
> "District Ranger and/or authrotized officer shall offer an alternative manner of application of 36 CFR 251 to "Annual Rainbow Gathering" and/or to other similar events."

> apparently, from garrick has said.. Undersecretary Mark Rey wants t talk about (operational) "issues for this upcoming Gathering" AND "work out ways to REDUCE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT BUDGET BY 50%"

Law enforcement, i.e. "police power" was left solely to the States by the original Act that created the National Forest System under Teddy Roosevelt, and I know of no Act of Congress that has amended that proviso. A fount can rise no higher than its source.

> In my Redress you know i have re-outlined to the Forest Service something very familiar... i.e. OPERATION PLAN and if the Forest Service wants a "PERMIT, they can authorize on their own... when they are satisfied of the OPERATION PLAN, worked out "on site" between "Gatherers" and Forest Service, prefarably resource and rec folks et....
> a plan, myself and thousands of others have advocated for yhears and years...
> I arbitrarily am asking folks to come to "hippie Hill", in Golden Gate Park, because i know the area, and it has big trees to stand under, if necessary...
> and it is easily found...
> I am going to be asking, to this Circle of individuals, a request for SOLIDARITY ... i.e. stand together and insist on an appropriate alternative application of the regulation...

> I am requesting also there be a couple of speaker phones hooked up for those who are unable to travel but who want to listen in and/or register their viewpoints... technology should be available for this???

> also, i will recording and i encourage others to record what is said etc...
> RAINBOW FAMILY IS NOT ATTENDING THIS MEETING

> INDIVIDUALS WHO COME TO GATHERINGS WHO HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE ISSUES AND MATTERS ARE, HOPEFULLY, COMING TO THIS MEETING..

"He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures." - "For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:" - "For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:" - "He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us." [people under license/Permit are regulated entities, NOT Citizens with rights]

Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

I see a lot of parallels. Wage Peace! Da Gummint already knows what it is doing wrong and operates in mens rea. I do not need to go to "hippie hill" to hear more empty high sounding speeches.

> NO AGREEEMENTS WILL BE BEING MADE BY RAINBOW FAMILY OR EVEN BY ANY OF THE ATTENDING INDIVIDUALS...
> HOPEFULLY CERTAIN PRINCIPLES AND GUIDLELINES CONCERNING COMMUNICATIONS AND COOPERATION IS, for me the subjects of the Day....

Enough of dealing with double-talk. Plunker and Garrick have access to AGR, but he and Garrick had to go through Karin to avoid being personally involved in this open forum, as they have in the past.

From: RiverRat32134 (riverrat32...@aol.comTruth)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 02:02:53 PST

this is my personal reasons for making this journey... "Spirit willing and the creek don’t rise"...

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 07:41:09 PST

"Sanity-Clause" <Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3FF8C59C.3405A...@worldnet.att.net...

> Agenda has been set.
...
> Enough of dealing with double-talk. Plunker and Garrick have access to AGR, but he and Garrick had to go through Karin to avoid being personally involved in this open forum, as they have in the past.
> Sanity

From: gary stubbs (rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 10:24:27 PST

riverrat32...@aol.comTruth (RiverRat32134) wrote in message news:<20040105050222.15374.00002...@mb-m04.aol.com>...

> this is my personal reasons for making this journey... "Spirit willing and the creek don’t rise"...

remeber to bring propane heaters....you’ll frezze your aases off in SF in january if you dont.....meeting outside in SF in winter is foolish

From: bodhi (The_Psychedelic_Tour...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 10:31:36 PST

i’ll attend, but only if Mark Rey hands out smokey the bear keychains to all who are attending....:^)

From: Sanity-Clause (Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 11:06:05 PST

No. Dictation to reason rather than an open discussion of substantive issues, viz.: Power of attorney & group liability. In other words, open albeit tacit support of the bombastic annulment of the right of peaceable assembly.

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 13:25:44 PST

"Sanity-Clause" <Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3FF960AA.224DC...@worldnet.att.net...

> No. Dictation to reason rather than an open discussion of substantive issues, viz.: Power of attorney & group liability. In other words, open albeit tacit support of the bombastic annulment of the right of peaceable assembly.
> Sanity

From: Sanity-Clause (Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 16:14:34 PST

From: Landing Light (landingli...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 21:35:07 PST

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-05 21:58:18 PST

"Sanity-Clause" <Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3FF9A8F0.E98D3...@worldnet.att.net...

> "Path of least resistance." = Avoiding honest discussion of issues? Seems so.
> Sanity

From: Sailor (x...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-06 20:43:13 PST

> i’ll attend, but only if Mark Rey hands out smokey the bear keychains to all who are attending....:^)

I think his intention is to hand out permit applications, not key chains.Post your address and I’ll make sure he sends you one.

From: Sailor (x...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-06 20:45:06 PST

> remeber to bring propane heaters....you’ll frezze your aases off in SF in january if you dont.....meeting outside in SF in winter is foolish

My understanding is the actual meeting is on Sat. and will not be out doors in a park.

From: Sailor (x...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-06 21:01:35 PST

My understanding is that the USFS is communicating "privately" with certain "individuals" who they consider "leaders" (as in RMT, like ICT) of the rainbow annual gathering. They have, as rumor has it, supplied funds for these individuals to travel to S.F. for a meeting on Jan.10. One of the individuals involved with this process sees the need to open up this meeting to folks in general. However it is difficult to find the exact time and site of this meeting (private) and make the event a "public" process. I hope that answers you question.

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-06 22:32:46 PST

"Sailor" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:3FFB9263.37F9D...@earthlink.net...

> My understanding is that the USFS is communicating "privately" with certain "individuals" who they consider "leaders" (as in RMT, like ICT) of the rainbow annual gathering. They have, as rumor has it, supplied funds for these individuals to travel to S.F. for a meeting on Jan.10. One of the individuals involved with this process sees the need to open up this meeting to folks in broad. However it is difficult to find the exact time and site of this meeting (private) and make the event a "public" process. I hope that answers you question.

Seems to me that all these private meetings take place first, and then there is some token "public" meeting that occurs. It’s getting old and boring to me. I want to get involved in a hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.

From: evincer (evi...@ceoexpress.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 04:12:55 PST

"woodstock" <thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<hKNKb.48364$m83.34...@fed1read01>...

> Seems to me that all these private meetings take place first, and then there is some token "public" meeting that occurs. It's getting old and boring to me. I want to get involved in a hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.
> -woodstock-

Sounds brill to me. Unfortunately, I’m afraid that instead we’re about to see the regularization of Latino (and other?) guest workers on three-year work permits (to keep wages low? and swing a few Latino citizen votes?). On the other hand, there’s still loads of public land in Canada. Now, if this global warming thing continues ....

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I’m reminded of how the Cherokee were handled in the several decades before ‘Trail of Tears’. At several different points, a small number of tribal ‘leaders’ sold of large (state-sized) sections of the Cherokee nation. Even back in the early 19th century, the US Government was pretty adept at choosing which leaders it wanted to deal with, and *making* leaders when it couldn’t find agreeable minds already in office.

What’s Tennessee worth in 1820 dollars, anyway? $5000 and an anuity of several hundred dollars a year? (Paid to individuals and not to the tribe?). Andy Jackson did so well with this (and other) deals, he went on to the Presidency. (btw, at one point much earlier in his political career, as a member of Congress, Andy tried to get George Washington impeached - because of Washington’s moderate policies toward dealing with the Cherokee nation).

Interestingly, the book I learned all this from disappeared from the university library the year after I wrote it into course materials for a research paper writing university course for advanced-English international students. As far as I could tell, the author didn’t pull any punches.

From: bodhi (The_Psychedelic_Tour...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 07:56:21 PST

A permit applications? Naw, but i got a crazy idea.Wanna hear it? Did you ever see the movie "Slaughterhouse Five"? There is a scene where the U.S. prisoners-of-war are sitting around in the barracks and in walks a guy recruiting for the Nazis. He’s got his own uniform and badges (which he proudly points out) and gives an impassionate speech on behalf of the american nazi party and how these guys can "join up"! It’s all very funny, but i thought, "Hey, why not have the Forest Service actively recruit Rainbow for a special Ranger outfit? We could redesign the forest service uniform with our own colors (tie-dye) and badges (shitter digger, parking lot, ect) and then roam the gatherings handing out joints and recruiting folks for careers in forest service.

Maybe we could get a position and our own office at the U.S. Forest Service in Washington - a cushy government job as "Rainbow Liaison" or something. Later on if this works out, we could apply for tribal status at the U.N. as a "lost wandering tribe of 60s cultural hippies". We could spend a lot of taxpayer’s money in writing cultural reports on rainbow that no-body would read. i think it would be a gas living in Georgetown at the government’s expense, having a government car taking me to work at the Forest Service where i would spend my days having meeting with Forest Service personal over issues of shitters and how to interact with "wingnut". Then, i would go to gatherings and open a kitchen with our Forest Service hippies handing out food and coffee and smokey the bear coloring books...

O.K........now, if you think i’m serious, well then shame on you! Never trust a prankster!

From: bodhi (The_Psychedelic_Tour...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 07:59:29 PST

Sailor <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FFB9263.37F9D...@earthlink.net>...

> My understanding is that the USFS is communicating "privately" with certain "individuals" who they consider "leaders" (as in RMT, like ICT) of the rainbow annual gathering. They have, as rumor has it, supplied funds for these individuals to travel to S.F. for a meeting on Jan.10. One of the individuals involved with this process sees the need to open up this meeting to folks in general. However it is difficult to find the exact time and site of this meeting (private) and make the event a "public" process. I hope that answers you question.

From: William O’Leary (wole...@compu-savers.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 08:50:01 PST

All of which will be present at this meeting.... let us not forget all their fence sitting supporters.

From: colorshigh (colorsh...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 10:49:24 PST

"woodstock" <thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<hKNKb.48364$m83.34...@fed1read01>...

> Seems to me that all these private meetings take place first, and then there is some token "public" meeting that occurs. It’s getting old and boring to me. I want to get involved in a hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.

Let’s talk more about this: hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 11:18:28 PST

"colorshigh" <colorsh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:edab63e9.0401071049.1235d...@posting.google.com...

> Let’s talk more about this: hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.
> Do you have anything specific? Email me directly if you like.

Sure- I tried right here a coupla few years ago when I was a newbie to AGR and thought it would be welcomed, but i didn’t realize the scene here at all- but I did learn quite a bit from this place and want to see how much interest there is in such an undertaking. I believe people that slammed me for daring to discuss such things understand where I’m coming from now- and even more importantly, I’m ready for any and all nay sayers. Lemme put a basic page together with a coupla links to get started. I really want to give the family another chance even though we had an incredible opportunity from 1999 to like 2002 to completely turn the economic reality of this family as a whole completely around. I’ll start working on a page inbetween my daily routines and eBay stuff I do, and it’s such a gorgeous day today I want to some outside stuff- it’s shorts and no t-shirt weather here. If anyone wants to "watch" this page being built, be my guest: http://www.hipebay.hipplanet.com (pronounced hip ebay or hippy bay huh huh) I don’t mind speaking about it publicly- I actually prefer it.

From: Principle (matte...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 13:18:57 PST

The_Psychedelic_Tour...@yahoo.com (bodhi) wrote in message news:<6f352af3.0401070756.5db6f...@posting.google.com>...

> A permit applications? Naw, but i got a crazy idea.Wanna hear it? Did you ever see the movie "Slaughterhouse Five"? There is a scene where the U.S. prisoners-of-war are sitting around in the barrack and in walks a guy recruiting for the Nazis. He’s got his own uniform and badges (which he proudly points out) and gives an impassionate speech on behalf of the american nazi party and how these guys can "join up"
...

In reality, however, these folks would be the guards for the Rainbow Concentration Camps.

From: Principle (matte...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 14:54:14 PST

lepro...@aol.com (LEproman) wrote in message news:<20040102222447.14277.00002...@mb-m28.aol.com>...

The FS never wants to deal with a "horde" of people, just a few "representatives," who will be "reasonable," and for this meeting not try, or insist upon talking about "the permit issue". The topic of this meeting is to be confined to "logistics" for this summers "assembly."

But, there is a more ominous reason this time. There are those who wish to foist upon the Gathering the Bureaucracies Permit Process. These folks, along with some bureaucrats, wish to control the meeting.

If the time and place were known individuals could just show up. There would be no control. The new excuse is they really don’t know where – FS wanted University of Berkley, which was known weeks ago, and ‘someone’ is looking for a hall. Now it will be decided at Hippie Hill thingy, and you just have to be there, which was RPMTs first position.

As it is, certain folks have been asked to attend and other were let known that their presence would not be welcome. One of which is this author who, it is said, could not be trusted to stick to the agreement and not talk about the permit. Well, I have never made any such agreement, and don’t believe anyone else has the right to make it for me, nor to put conditions on those attending a meeting between individual citizens and governmental bureaucrats. Particularly a meeting regarding an Assembly of Equal Individual of which most of those who would attend have participated in.

New rap; FS will listen to whatever anyone wants to say. This comes a little late for some to attend, and really doesn’t change the way this was put together, and how arrangements were made to insure certain folks either did or did not attend. Simply ass covering by RPMT players.

It seems to be the intent of some folks to hold a get-together in order to; decided who will go to the meeting with Ray and other Forest Service Personnel, making it look like representation; control dissent, and to reinforce the meeting’s purported purpose as discussing logistics for this summer’s Annual Gathering. Yet its public portrayal has been quit different. Read Zirk-Plunker: http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3FF8D129.49FC%40earthlink.net&rnum=5

It is now believed that enough "invited" folks will attend. So more folks will now be allowed to attend. There are those who oppose permits that will attend, but the deck has been stacked. Those who are not pleased with permits that will attend are of the less assertive variety.

Then there is the "co-operations council" to be held the next day, making it look even more attached to the Gathering, logistics thereof, and again, representative.

The Sacharow group has Whistler going, and Plunker, Garrick, and Brian Michaels are calling in "trusted" adherents, and arranging transportation.

Stacking attendance - Making it look representative - Agreeing to avoid the relevant issue - Operating a closed, secret, and controlled process - This is not Rainbow

If this is a meeting of interested, maybe invited, individuals, having nothing to do with "Rainbow" why is the Annual Rainbow Gathering the topic of discussion?

Is this the Forest Service Department of Agriculture "Rainbow Management Team" meeting with the "Rainbow Permit Management Team" in an attempt to control "The Gathering"?

Have some individuals decided to "take control" of the Annual Gathering a’la Florida 931 or "whatever camp"?

These folks are acting as if they have popular sovereignty on their side – yet they have nothing that would possibly mirror a majority. They don’t even have a majority of the apathetic-

You ask for names; Jeff Kline, Brian Michaels, Garrick and Plunker set up meeting – Kline dealt with Washington Bureaucrats, Michaels horned in some - things passed to Garrick – Garrick and Michaels have Plunker front.

Plunker posts his "points of light" email (reminiscent of Papa Bush) announcing mysterious meeting. Refuses info when quarried saying ‘be at hippie hill or be square’-

How the forest service has defined the meeting and what has been depicted by Rainbow Permit Management Personnel seem to be quit different, changing regularly to meet political acceptableness.

Also interesting: A handful of people who couldn’t get their way at TGC try calling a "co-operations council" for the very weekend that the mysterious "Ray" meeting was –ALREADY- set for. Unbeknownst to the majority of Gatherer, with no public discussions at all.

From: jbird (jaberwockinmawkinb...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 16:32:34 PST

evince...@ceoexpress.com (evincer) wrote in message news:<873e05e.0401070412.5ec44...@posting.google.com>...

> Sounds brill to me. Unfortunately, I’m afraid that instead we’re about to see the regularization of Latino (and other?) guest workers on three-year work permits (to keep wages low? and swing a few Latino citizen votes?).

I just read Bush latest blunder. Union busting. That fucker. Hopefully the public sees through this bullshit proposal. Here’s the CNN pole results as of right now:

> On the other hand, there’s still loads of public land in Canada. Now, if this global warming thing continues ....
...
advanced-English international students. As far as I could tell, the author didn’t pull any punches.
> peaches have stones
> via

Yip, I too worry more about the larger picture of corporate fascism, eg, censorship, union busting, imperial corporate warfare, global warming, and so forth. There’s many shades of fascism in this country.

From: Sailor (x...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 17:42:17 PST

> "Sailor" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:3FFB9263.37F9D...@earthlink.net...

> I want to get involved in a hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.
> -woodstock-

My suggestion, for what it is worth, is that you look in places other than "rainbow" newsgroups. While you may find some folks who can reccomend others who share your interest, the scope of rainbow folks is very broad and few seem to be interested in revolution of any nature.

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-07 18:13:14 PST

"Sailor" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:3FFCB528.DA01F...@earthlink.net...

> > I want to get involved in a hippy economic revolution and land reform movement.

> My suggestion, for what it is worth, is that you look in places other than "rainbow" newsgroups. While you may find some folks who can reccomend others who share your interest, the scope of rainbow folks is very broad and few seem to be interested in revolution of any nature.

Fortunately I’ve been going to gatherings longer than most people here, and I’ve watched the "traditional" means of the economic structure take a shit too many times. If I were you, I’d shut my fucking mouth when it comes to that subject- just go scouting is my kind advice Bruth tha.

From: jbird (jaberwockinmawkinb...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 01:30:11 PST

jaberwockinmawkinb...@yahoo.com (jbird) wrote in message news:<e87ab3b6.0401071632.f0bc...@posting.google.com>...

> I just read Bush latest blunder. Union busting. That fucker. Hopefully the public sees through this bullshit proposal. Here’s the CNN pole results as of right now
> Do you agree with President Bush’s immigration proposal?
> Yes 24% 46662 votes
> No 63% 122406 votes
> Unsure 13% 24860 votes

Maybe I should clarify for anyone who missed it, Bush said, as literally as I can recall, that his imigration policy to allow droves of Mexicans to come to the U.S. to work was because he wants to give Mexicans the jobs that U.S. citizens don’t want. The problem is not that we U.S. citizens necessarily don’t want those jobs, but that we want those employers to provide fair compensation, safe work conditions, and responsible business practices--which he figures Mexicans either don’t want or don’t deserve.

From: Sanity-Clause (Sanity-Cla...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 04:20:02 PST

From: Sailor (x...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 07:04:38 PST

> Fortunately I’ve been going to gatherings longer than most people here, and I’ve watched the "traditional" means of the economic structure take a shit too many times. If I were you, I’d shut my fucking mouth when it comes to that subject- just go scouting is my kind advice Bruth tha.

LOL, well maybe I’ll wait till you send me some money to scout with that you get via your new ecconomic "revolution".

From: Stella (stella_...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 09:22:09 PST

> Maybe I should clarify for anyone who missed it, Bush said, as literally as I can recall, that his imigration policy to allow droves of Mexicans to come to the U.S. to work was because he wants to give Mexicans the jobs that U.S. citizens don’t want. The problem is not that we U.S. citizens necessarily don’t want those jobs, but that we want those employers to provide fair compensation, safe work conditions, and responsible business practices--which he figures Mexicans either don’t want or don’t deserve.

Racism, sexism, classism, ageism, all the ...isms and the related systems of prejudice that keep people oppressed are in reality interconnected. They reinforce and feed upon each other. To end any one of them we have to address them all. All depend on the construct of power as domination: the ability and entitlement of some eliite group to comand compliance, control resources, and impose punishment on the many. All depend on isolating the individual, on convincing them that their pain is the result of personal failing rather than part of a larger structure of oppression directed at whole classes of people. The inequalities and injustices of global apartheid are maintained by the police and military powers of the state.

Since the 1960s and with increasing intensity since 9/11/01 the global justice movement has been facing an array of forces telling us to get back, to disperse, to leave the scene. The forces of the state, the media, all the powers that support global corporate capitalism would like to see us go away.

We have nowhere to go because the conditions we have been fighting have not gone away. The disparity between the rich and poor has not grown less, the attempts of the corporate powers to consolidate their hegemony have not ceased, the environment has not miraculously repaired itself, and our economic and social systems have not suddenly become sustainable.

From: Principle (matte...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 15:38:37 PST

jaberwockinmawkinb...@yahoo.com (jbird) wrote in message news:<e87ab3b6.0401080130.27102...@posting.google.com>...

Bush did what he did for to basic reasons, one the Latino vote, and two to keep his corporate friends –like Wal Mart executives- out of jail.

Another effect or result will be the registration of undocumented workers or "illegal aliens" so as to later track them down.

From: gary stubbs (rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 19:37:53 PST

its still seems to me ...that the most important question we have here is .....WHERE IS THE ACCUALL SITE of this meeting with the usfs tomorrow...I know thatId liek to be there to reaffirm my oppinion aboutthe usfs........so who knows for sure.....

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-08 20:10:16 PST

"gary stubbs" <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b334dc77.0401081937.64771...@posting.google.com...

> its still seems to me ...that the most important question we have here is .....WHERE IS THE ACCUALL SITE of this meeting with the usfs tomorrow...I know thatId liek to be there to reaffirm my oppinion aboutthe usfs........so who knows for sure.....

From: evincer (evi...@ceoexpress.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-09 00:22:53 PST

matte...@yahoo.com (Principle) wrote in message news:<f029cceb.0401081538.4cc5f...@posting.google.com>...

> Bush did what he did for to basic reasons, one the Latino vote, and two to keep his corporate friends ?like Wal Mart executives- out of jail.
> Another effect or result will be the registration of undocumented workers or "illegal aliens" so as to later track them down.

So-o-o-o .... if Dubya gets this registration system he’s asking for, illegals will stop crossing the border? and large & agricultural (& other) outfits will stop hiring illegals?

I predict he probably doesn’t get the system, but picks up a few latino votes.

From: JoaneeF (joan...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-09 06:35:46 PST

I heard that you have to be at today’s meeting at Hippie Hill to find out where tomorrow’s meeting will be...something about there being several locations and the meeting place will be decided at the Hippie Hill meeting today.

From: woodstock (thirdwavevisi...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Meeting with USFS
Date: 2004-01-09 11:07:36 PST

"evincer" <evi...@ceoexpress.com> wrote in message news:873e05e.0401090022.4d1e8...@posting.google.com...

> So-o-o-o .... if Dubya gets this registration system he’s asking for, illegals will stop crossing the border? and large & agricultural (& other) outfits will stop hiring illegals?
> I predict he probably doesn’t get the system, but picks up a few latino votes.

Personally, I don’t believe politics should play the role it does in economics. A person’s work should have no bearing on anything other than the quality of the work.