Death Camp part 5

From: Sanity
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> > I have never seen anyone “curled in a ball whimpering beside the trail” at a rainbow gathering. I hope you didn’t mean that as a threat, because I think it could be misinterpreted as one.
> No, I meant that Gawd would have a freak out panic attack. That Gawd would not be able to handle it.

> By the way, I have more than once found some “curled in a ball whimpering by the trail” Some folks just have a hard time with it all.

The Liberty at a gathering IS profound and takes some getting used to, that’s for sure. Once folks realize tollerance for the Liberty of others is all it takes to fit in those that stay unwind pretty well I’ve noticed. :^)

> I doubt that Gawd has ever been to a Gather, nor will ever go to one. Gawd thinks it is OK to threaten to kill. I don’t.

I didn’t read where he had personally threatened to ‘go postal.’ He does seem to enjoy fear-mongering, so I treat him like a troll and feed him silence.

From: Justa Guy
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> No, I meant that Gawd would have a freak out panic attack. That Gawd would not be able to handle it. By the way, I have more than once found some “curled in a ball whimpering by the trail” Some folks just have a hard time with it all. I doubt that Gawd has ever been to a Gather, nor will ever go to one. Gawd thinks it is OK to threaten to kill. I don’t.

I love it when, once again, ignorant folk speak out about others they know nothing about.

I am not about to start another shit match with a total stranger who assumes they are more of a Rainbow than me.

IS this where you start talking about how many gatherings you have been to and how much more knowledgeable you are on things?

From: Justa Guy
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> He does seem to enjoy fear-mongering, so I treat him like a troll and feed him silence.

Collecting tolls on other people’s misery and sorrow... to further your own pockets and ego?

From: David
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> I didn’t read where he had personally threatened to ‘go postal.’ He does seem to enjoy fear-mongering, so I treat him like a troll and feed him silence.

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> So... what is the moral of this story?
> If you bring children to a Rainbow gathering be prepared to pack heat now!

I haven’t read anything here from Butterfly Bill, Karin, or Thistle that indicates any remorse for the situation or any assurances that this type of incident won’t happen again. In fact with the attitude they’ve expressed here it’s apparent they will feel justified in harassing more people on the Fourth next summer, Now the cover-up begins as they construct their lies I don’t feel safe bringing my children to the gathering if they are going to be attacked by an angry mob for just being children Thank you Bodhi for trying to get to the truth.

From: hj st
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> Now the cover-up begins as they construct their lies I don’t feel safe bringing my children to the gathering if they are going to be attacked by an angry mob for just being children Thank you Bodhi for trying to get to the truth.

oh thank you troll for your entirely warped, new, out-of-left-field, and from the AGRT memo this week, viewpoint,..

yes,.. don’t come to the gathering,.. baaaaad things,... baaaaaaaaaaad things,...

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> oh thank you troll for your entirely warped, new, out-of-left-field, and from the AGRT memo this week, viewpoint,..

yeah she would rather listen to second third and forth hand reports then the reports of those who were eye witnesses.... cant trust them eye witness rumour is much more reliable ....maybe shes childabusabill’s sista

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> I haven’t read anything here from Butterfly Bill, Karin, or Thistle that indicates any remorse for the situation or any assurances that this type of incident won’t happen again. In fact with the attitude they’ve expressed here it’s apparent they will feel justified in harassing more people on the Fourth next summer

I’m going to be catching hippy hell next years for pursuing this issue here. It’s apparent this whole incident will slide into the Orwellian Memory Hole if we allow it.

I have refrained from using gossip and rumor I’ve heard on the “Rainbow Grapevine” relying instead on the statements from BB and Karin.

Their accounts don’t match in significant ways. They’re so different in context they might as well be describing separate incidences. Butterfly Bill needs to address the inconsistencies between his account and Karin.

For example, why does BB describe in details the musical instrumentals the children were playing while Karin categorically states:

This is an important detail because BB reports that the children were initially harassed for doing nothing more than playing music and talking loudly. BB attended Council in which he reports that a trombone was damaged.

It’s inconsistent with Karin’s account. The musical instruments are important because it demonstrates the atmosphere of intolerance that existed in the meadow on the 4th.

Karin states the kids entered the meadow lighting off firecrackers. Yet there are no mention of fireworks in BB’s account either in the incident itself and the Council held afterward.

If fireworks were involved (as Karin states) it should’ve played a prominent role in BB’s account, yet it demonstrate another inconsistency between the two stories. The fireworks are an important detail because it shows motivation for the mob’s action. I find it hard to believe that BB didn’t hear any fireworks or felt it wasn’t important enough to include in his account.

It would be nice if BB would come here try and clear up some of these inconsistencies. But he won’t.

The High Holies have been caught in a lie and a cover-up is brewing. It’s their modus operandi to attack the accuser then ignore any further inquiry. They do not want you to know the man behind the curtain.

Authoritarians have taken over the Rainbow Family and they’re trying to turn Rainbow into a religious theocracy like we see in Iran.

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> Authoritarians have taken over the Rainbow Family and they’re trying to turn Rainbow into a religious theocracy like we see in Iran.
> We need to expose these fascists within our Family and root them out.
> Until we do these High Holies will continue to blow smoke up your ass.

so your suggesting that BB and karin are in some big conspericy to cover up something....come on bodhi....get serious you know both katin and bill well enough to know they are honest people who tell the truth as they see it .... 2 different views from two different perspectives from opposite sides of the meadow ... ofcourse their versions vary...if the matched completely THAT would be questionable..... your looking for commies in the closet and looking foolish

From:
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> I’m going to be catching hippy hell next years for pursuing this issue here. It’s apparent this whole incident will slide into the Orwellian Memory Hole if we allow it.

i was there,... i heard firecrackers,.. and the more i think about that day, fuck,.. i can clearly hear an elephant roar as well... such is memory, eh?

fuck,... really? funny to see you climb upon this issue built on others backs, deeds and works,.. and still completely not getting it,.. while screaming loudly. psst., it’s obvious.

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

On Aug 13, 4:20 pm, “rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com” <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> so your suggesting that BB and karin are in some big conspericy to cover up something

On the 4th of July a group of children were harassed for playing musical instruments and acting bratty in Main Meadow. They were surrounded and attempts were made to intimidate them by the profane use of the holy Om for crowd control and intimidation purposes. The kids did nothing wrong. When they returned to their camp for re- enforcements and revenge they were acting like kids, not adults. During the same period a couple in the Meadow were harassed and intimidated again by a mob misusing the Holy Om in order to silence them.

This was taken from Butterfly Bill’s account and it is extremely disturbing. Mobs of intolerant High Holy assholes imposing their will upon Family is something that needs to be addressed, not covered up. It explains why the later more serious incident involving the assault of a child was possible and in fact enviable.

THIS IS NOT RAINBOW FOLKS!!!!! It’s a perversion of everything Rainbow stands for.

Karin’s account seems revisionist - after the fact. An attempt to focus blame on the children and away from the true instigators of the attack.

> ....come on bodhi....get serious you know both katin and bill well enough to know they are honest

> people who tell the truth as they see it .... 2 different views from two different perspectives from opposite sides of the meadow

If that was the case their stories would differ slightly. But reading their accounts it feels like they are describing two different events. Their stories don’t match AT ALL. and they should. If these kids lit off firecrackers the whole meadow would’ve been alerted. Folks might have mistaken the firecracker for gunfire. A much larger mob would’ve formed and there would’ve been more witnesses and more urgency to the event. From the videos I’ve seen it’s apparent that no-one was trying to determine if the fireworks were gunfire. The audio of the crowd contains no discussion about firecrackers. This is strange. It’s also strange that no mention was made of the girls lighting off fireworks in BB’s account of the Council held afterward, just regret over their musical instruments being damaged.

> “I did not sit in the council, but at Info next to the council so I heard some, but not all of the topics and issues discussed. I will not repeat the words spoken at the council.”

I’ve seen High Holies cover up alot of shit in the past - especially if it involves the goon squad activities of their Shanta Sena gang or their backroom dealing with the Forest Service.

I’m giving the both of them the benefit of the doubt which is why I gave Karin a chance to revise her statement as well as inviting BB is come on here and clear up some inconsistencies

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

fierst of all no craime was commited ...and ou keep going back to these anonymus HI Ho’s...who are they bodhi...if your cources are so reliable then you must have had names ... you must know who these childabussing HI holies are ....so name names ... if you dont ...or cant name names than alll you have is rumour and inuendo..in contrats to eye witness accounts ... and romour always pales in comparison to eye witness testimony... and you want karin or bill to revuse t heir eye witness expeeience to comply with the anonymus second hand information youve recieved from who again...???...bills account never mentions mobs of hi holies...and your thrid hand account do mentikon any names ...without names I justcant take your reportsas anything but the worse kind of romour ..and I know damn good and well that if someone wanted to attack you based on 3rd hand anonymus romours youd scream to high heavem...and you know Id scream aboutit as well...yet thats what your doing...you are assuming that bill and karim are lying...and you chose to believe second hand reportss who name no one ...and slander everyopne .... your worng bodhi...and if youd settledown long enough to think about it youd know IM right....without naming who is accused ot tackling children there IS NO issue to discuss ...its all just blowing smoke ..

From: Karin Zirk
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

“Erika” <epitomeofd...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:994fd255-3a98-4d46-a661-579a470ffdf2@t5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

> I don't feel safe bringing my children to the gathering if they are going to be attacked by an angry mob for just being children
> Thank you Bodhi for trying to get to the truth.

Personally I don’t know what the “truth” is as all I know is what I observed and what people told me. Myself and others were trying to let the children get to the peace pole and mouth off if that’s what makes them happy.

None of us wanted things to escalate, but you have to understand that these kids are masters at pushing people’s buttons and the fact that a 17 year old girl pushed people’s buttons is not surprising. No body wanted this to happen, but in a situation as heated as this one was, it’s not suprising to me that some people landed on the ground. As I mentioned earlier I do not know exactly how people landed on the ground and my friend who was at the bottom of everyone doesn’t know either. SO........

Unless your children are going to be given free reign to injure other children, throw shit in people’s faces, smash camerss and scare people right and left for years and years on end, I wouldn’t worry about your kids.

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> None of us wanted things to escalate, but you have to understand that these kids are masters at pushing people’s buttons and the fact that a 17 year old girl pushed people’s buttons is not surprising.

The kids were disrupting your Hi-Holy Holiday So were the 2012 couple. Folks took it upon themselves to intimidate them into submission by surrounding them in an “OM Circle” - a blaspheme bastardization of a sacred symbol of spirituality.

No-body had done anything wrong. No rules were broken. Just an oppressive authoritarian atmosphere in the meadow where people’s free speech was violated.

Because of the self-righteous mood of the crowd an ugly incident occurred in which a child was physically attacked and thrown to the ground. Her musical instruments were broken.

These “masters at pushing people’s buttons” were children - not adults. It’s not their behavior I’m concerned about. It’s the behavior of people who think they’re “spiritual” and “enlightened” yet couldn’t tolerate a disruption of their precious silence. Because the kids were acting out at the Peace Pole it’s not surprising they were attacked and “OM-ed” over by the same people who think they’re so important they have to create a separate circle of their kind.

No body wanted this to happen, but in a situation as heated as this one was, it’s not suprising to me that some people landed on the ground. As I mentioned earlier I do not know exactly how people landed on the ground and my friend who was at the bottom of everyone doesn’t know either. SO........

It was all a terrible mistake, eh?? Bullshit. This incident is just a small reminder of just how far we’ve come to creating an authoritarian cult based on intimidation and violence. Like I said at the beginning of this thread. This is a wake-up call Family.

I’m going to be attending the Annual next summer with a can of mace in my pocket. If any of you Hi-Hos want to circle around and “OM” me you better be prepared to have a bottle of water nearby because you’re going to need it. I’m deadly serious. If I see anybody breaking the Silence next year and finding themselves in an OM circle I will liberate them by spraying everyone involved. A little mace with your OM??

I’m also telling everyone to prepare themselves with non-lethal protection devices to be used in case of another attack of self- righteousness springs up among the Hi-Hos.

If it comes down to people having to protect themselves against mob rule, so be it

> Unless your children are going to be given free reign to injure other children, throw shit in people’s faces, smash camerss and scare people right and left for years and years on end, I wouldn’t worry about your kids.

The Wreaking Crew could do more damage in one night at A-Camp than these kids could accomplish in one year.

Let’s face it - these kids are the creation of Rainbow. They come to gathering looking to expose hypocrisy and apparently it’s a full time gig for them because there’s plenty of hypocrisy to go around.

What is the problem here? Read my original post. It’s apparent the myth of the Elder is being maintain not by example but by intimidation and force.

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> I’m going to be attending the Annual next summer with a can of mace in my pocket. If any of you Hi-Hos want to circle around and “OM” me you better be prepared to have a bottle of water nearby because you’re going to need it. I’m deadly serious. If I see anybody breaking the Silence next year and finding themselves in an OM circle I will liberate them by spraying everyone involved. A little mace with your OM??

we have NOTHING other then your word thatsays that any “hi holie”...where involved ...nor that anyone was assualted ... but we do have eye witnhess testimony that contradict your version of events ....rant on all you wish bodhi but you offer nothing... no facts...nothing at all to the discussion...and youve provided no names tothese mythical hi holies who alledgedly assualted children....so what we have is nothing other then avideo which does not support your story either .....

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

> I haven’t read anything here from Butterfly Bill, Karin, or Thistle that indicates any remorse for the situation or any assurances that this type of incident won’t happen again.

What the fuck are you talking about? None of us has the power to offer any type of assurance nothing like this will happen again.

If you’re so concerned about it I suggest you camp near death camp and let your kids hang out with the death camp kids. Then you’d be right there to protect your kids and the death camp kids if something like this happens again.

From: Karin Zirk
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

“bodhi” <psychedel...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:98554ce5-ae0a-45d1-859b-f2a57b210ef3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

> The kids were disrupting your Hi-Holy Holiday So were the 2012 couple. Folks took it upon themselves to intimidate them into submission by surrounding them in an “OM Circle” - a blaspheme bastardization of a sacred symbol of spirituality.

Sorry to point out the obvious, but there was an om circle going on as often happens in the main meadow around the peace pole of the 4th of july shortly before noon. If any person does not want to experience that I suggest they do not put themselves in the middle of the main meadow during the OM.

From: Pat Easterling
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

What? Hey, I was with you all the way, but no camera smashing!?!? Awe come on, aren’t there some situations where that is mandatory.

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 13, 2010

On Aug 13, 5:57 pm, “rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com” <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

yes there were. Very serious crimes - assault, intimidation, kidnapping and false imprisonment of a minor.

Funny thing is- when I rail against the “High Holies” there are some folks that take offense and think I’m talking about THEM. It’s because they believe they are the “High Holies”

A High Holy, as everybody knows, is a pure fool. A term we’ve used in the Rainbow Family that translate into “take the cork outta yer ass”

“If you THINK you’re a High Holy” then you need to own up to it and get some serious SPIRITUAL HELP.

You really don’t need to spread your megalomania on the younger generation. I know a guy who lives in Marysville. He’s been a part of Rainbow for centuries and has a kitchen that feeds Family and helps out kids. He has opened his home to Family and knows and communicates with many in the “inner circle”

But I would never accuse him of being a “High Holy” unless I wanted to get a laugh out of him!

There are many in the Family I wouldn’t consider High Holies because I have too much respect for them. You know them. They are true FAMILY. They are compassionate and humble and would never consider themselves to be better than anyone else. Best of all they do not JUDGE others

Then there are the silly fools that hang out at the Peace Pole. At the Annual in California there was a controversy over the Forest Service’s claim that the Rainbow Family were digging shitters on the graves of Native Americans. Dwight Whitefeather investigated and found the whole incident to be bogus.

I knew it was FS psy-ops at the meeting I attended The FS drove aNative American woman to the site. The point I want to make is this.

At the meeting the insufferable High Holies rented their garments and wailed AGAINST the Rainbow Family. Speaker after speaker went out of their way to make us feel guilty. They railed against our white privilege and condemned us for our thoughtlessness. Now the funny thing was - all the High Holies were white and middle- class.

During the meeting I asked how come they were being so self-righteous and got shouted down. The intolerance I saw really disturbed me. I hoped it wasn’t the wave of the future but I’m afraid it was.

So when I’m condemning the “High Holies am I talking about you. dear reader??

> if your cources are so reliable then you must have had names ... you must know who these childabussing HI holies are ....so name names ... if you dont ...or cant name names than alll you have is rumour and inuendo..in contrats to eye witness accounts ...

> > “I went back into the meadow, and almost everybody was still standing and holding hands, and the Om continued on faintly some more until silence returned - but most of the people were still standing. Then I saw a man beckoning everybody to sit down, and most did. Then he broke the silence with his loud voice announcing how there would be a world crisis in 2012, the last year in the Mayan calendar, and our Hopi brothers have left us a prophecy that we should all gather in “the four corners area”, because they knew “how to show us how to survive”. Another woman got up and started to add some more words to his. When people stated saying, “Respect the Silence”, she repeatedly answered with, “I will not be silenced!” Small circles of people formed around her and the man, and a saw people trying to persuade them quietly. But there were some more outbursts from them, and now everybody was saying Om, and this time it got louder as people tried to use the Om to drown out their voices. The two people finally quieted down, but the Om, started perhaps prematurely, continued until I saw the children’s parade from Kid Village start to walk between out rings.”

Now Gary, who would bother surrounding this couple and OM-ing them into submission? A-Camp drunks? Bread of Life christians? The kids from Warriors of the Light? Maybe Fairy Camp?

These folks were sooooo outraged that their sacred ceremony was disturbed. It was an affront so grievous that “people tried to use the Om to drown out their voices. “

Who else in the Family would tackle a child for playing a musical instrument during the fourth?

> and romour always pales in comparison to eye witness testimony... and you want karin or bill to revuse t heir eye witness expeeience to comply with the anonymus second hand information youve recieved from who again...???

I would like BB to comment on the contradictions between his and Karin’s account. No rumor, no second hand information. I want to know why Bill didn’t mention fireworks in his account.

Anyone who would try to impose their will by “use[ing] the Om to drown out their voices. “ is either a fascist or a High Holy by definition

> and your thrid hand account do mentikon any names ...without names I justcant take your reportsas anything but the worse kind of romour ..and I know damn good and well that if someone wanted to attack you based on 3rd hand anonymus romours youd scream to high heavem...

> and you chose to believe second hand reportss who name no one ...and slander everyopne ....

> your worng bodhi...and if youd settledown long enough to think about it youd know IM right....without naming who is accused ot tackling children there IS NO issue to discuss ...its all just blowing smoke ..

I have a very developed bullshit detector I developed over the year. My B.S. Detector is telling me that the sensation I’m feelingnow is smoke being blown up my ass. I’m hoping someone will post a better version of the incident.

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Unless your children are going to be given free reign to injure other children, throw shit in people's faces, smash camerss and scare people right and left for years and years on end, I wouldn't worry about your kids.

My kids (I have three) can get a bit rambunches. I take them to church on Sunday and sometimes they get restless and make noise. My Pastor gives them candy, not throw them to the floor.

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> What the fuck are you talking about? None of us has the power to offer any type of assurance nothing like this will happen again.

What the fuck am I talking about? I’m talking about protecting my children from folks like you.

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> My kids (I have three) can get a bit rambunches. I take them to church on Sunday and sometimes they get restless and make noise. My Pastor gives them candy, not throw them to the floor.

rotflmao I can see how concerned you are. Rather than bitchin at those who you think did something wrong you just set up your tents near death camp. Let your kids hang out with the kids there. Get involved. The death camp kids can get a “bit rambunches” too. It should be fun for you.

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Rather than bitchin at those who you think did something wrong you just set up your tents near death camp. Let your kids hang out with the kids there. Get involved. The death camp kids can get a “bit rambunches” too. It should be fun for you.

I’m with Fat Kids. Death Camp is our sister camp. You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> I’m with Fat Kids. Death Camp is our sister camp. You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.

No i don’t, I’m so glad you are here to give us some information. Are death camp kids throwing shit and urine at people who walk by? Are they physically attacking people? Are they throwing rocks at people? Did they throw fire crackers into groups of people? Did they grab cameras our of people’s hands and break them? Please tell me how they behave in detail with specific examples. How do you and the other parents handle this behavior?

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> No i don’t, I’m so glad you are here to give us some information. Are death camp kids throwing shit and urine at people who walk by? Are they physically attacking people?

Death Camp Kids hate hippies. Are you surprised considering the stupid rumors you spread about them? I’m guessing these children are not awed by your piety.

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Death Camp Kids hate hippies. Are you surprised considering the stupid rumors you spread about them? I’m guessing these children are not awed by your piety.

I’ve started a new thread. I’m sincerely interested in all you have to say from your first hand experience with these kids. I’d like to request you respond on the new thread.

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> I’ve started a new thread. I’m sincerely interested in all you have to say from your first hand experience with these kids. I’d like to request you respond on the new thread.

Im not interested in talking with you..You people make me sick. Believe your stupid rumors because you will not believe the truth. I am not going to be your whipping boy old man.

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Im not interested in talking with you..You people make me sick. Believe your stupid rumors because you will not believe the truth. I am not going to be your whipping boy old man.

/shrug whatever. If you refuse to share any information I have no choice but to believe the rumors I’ve heard since they come from people I know or from people who have earned my respect as honest people. If you refuse to discuss the subject all that means is you will have no place in the discussion. Tossing insults at me is meaningless and doesn’t give you a place in the discussion, except as a troll. I can only guess you refuse to discuss the subject because you have something to hide.

From: Erika
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> /shrug whatever. If you refuse to share any information I have no choice but to believe the rumors I’ve heard since they come from people I know or from people who have earned my respect as honest people.

I would hate to disagree with all those people who earned your respect. I have no interest in talking to anyone who condones the hitting of a child or make excuses for a child being hit. You are a monster. I’ve read enough of your garbage to know how you twist words.

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> I would hate to disagree with all those people who earned your respect. I have no interest in talking to anyone who condones the hitting of a child or make excuses for a child being hit. You are a monster. I’ve read enough of your garbage to know how you twist words.

I have never condoned hitting a child nor have I ever hit a child. You are a lying troll. This is how I believe the situation should be handled.

If my children entered the main circle for the sole purpose of disrupting the silence with shouting, trombone blasts, and throwing of firecrackers I would hope that adults would gently restrain them, confiscate the firecrackers and hold them until I arrived to deal with the problem. It takes a village to raise a child and usually most rainbows are together enough to help in some small ways. But then, my children would never contemplate doing any such thing. If I came to the silence and my child began acting out I’d restrain them myself and walk them out of the meadow to deal with their behavior where it didn’t interfere with others spiritual ceremony. That the parents seem to encourage extreme negative behavior by their children seems to be the root of this problem

I’ve been to gatherings with many children. At no time did anyone spread rumors that they threw urine or shit on anyone, threw rocks at anyone, threw fire crackers at anyone, took anyone’s property and broke it. No one accused them of causing a disturbance in the main meadow while people were observing the silence. Why is it that people are spreading what you claim are false rumors about death camp kids?

If a child throws things at me or takes my property I will restrain them. I will put my hands on them. If you object I suggest you either stay away from me or teach your children to not throw things at people or take other people’s things.

From: Sanity
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> If my children entered the main circle for the sole purpose of disrupting the silence with shouting, trombone blasts, and throwing of firecrackers I would hope that adults would gently restrain them, confiscate the firecrackers and hold them until I arrived to deal with the problem. It takes a village to raise a child and usually most rainbows are together enough to help in some small ways.

As a parent Thistle is certainly within his rights to extend his trust to “most rainbows” to aid him in rearing his children, but why he seems to think his trust should be binding on Erika or anyone else escapes me. Trusting is something individuals do, or refuse to do, at their Liberty.

I support an amendment to the Operating Plan banning all fireworks. Fire hazard to the side; if I wanted to listen to explosions I’d stay in Babylon!

From: ohlo...@hotmail.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> My kids (I have three) can get a bit rambunches. I take them to church on Sunday and sometimes they get restless and make noise. My Pastor gives them candy, not throw them to the floor.

Yea.. reward them hyper children with sugar... that’s a great solution! Personally I think you’re faking it all.... a troll can always smell a troll. *sniff* *sniff* Yep...

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

Are you still a troll here? I thought you got the memo. You’re been promoted!!

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

gently. eh? Among a mob of self-righteous Hi-Hos?? You really think this is an isolated incident?? For the last several years there has been numerous incidents of people being harassed by mobs of self- righteous assholes imposing their will on others.

Just like the LEO incident in Kiddie Village exposed the violence inherent in Law Enforcement’s treatment of Family, so does this incident expose the hypocrisy and authoritarian tendencies inherent in our High Holies.

> confiscate the firecrackers and hold them until I arrived to deal with the problem.

I find you holding my child in a mob of angry assholes I will blind you with some military issued pepper spray and drag your sorry ass to front gate and turn you over to the State Police.

> It takes a village to raise a child and usually most rainbows are together enough to help in some small ways.

Then you have your intolerant Rainbows who believe they have the right to impose their will on others. They think it’s perfectly acceptable to surround someone in a circle and OM them - not to defuse the situation but, as BB noted “people tried to use the Om to drown out their voices.” Now, I may not be a Hindu but I think I’m on the right track in believing that the sacred OM was never intended to intimidate and silence someone’s right to free speech.

Kids are kids. Give then a pack of firecrackers and see what ANY kid would do. When I was a kid I caught my uncle sleeping one day on the couch. Me and my friends thought it would be funny to light some firecracker and wake him up. I caught hell but I wasn’t assaulted.

> If I came to the silence and my child began acting out I’d restrain them myself and walk them out of the meadow to deal with their behavior where it didn’t interfere with others spiritual ceremony.

That is - if you could safely extract them from a rabid mob of Hi-Hos OM-ing over them. Chances are you would be surrounded as well.

> That the parents seem to encourage extreme negative behavior by their children seems to be the root of this problem

> I’ve been to gatherings with many children. At no time did anyone spread rumors that they threw urine or shit on anyone, threw rocks at anyone, threw fire crackers at anyone, took anyone’s property and broke it.

The antics of “Death Camp Kids” are nothing more than campfire stories told by middle-age high holies sitting around in their lawn chairs late at nite smoking schwag bud and being neurotic.. Bad hippie parenting breeds monsters and no-one in the Rainbow Family can be the least bit surprised to hear tales of dirty feral children roaming the gathering in packs considering our crazy lifestyle. If “Death Camp” isn’t true then we would have to create one in our heads - if only to confirm our worst fears that our children would come back one night and murder us in our sleep.

> No one accused them of causing a disturbance in the main meadow while people were observing the silence.

And if they did? Would you want your kids to be OM-ed over? Would you want their musical instruments and camera yanked out of their hands and broken? Would you want a mob of angry Hi-Hos take matters in their own hands? Would you want someone to put their hands on your child possibly causing them injury. And for what? Because they were acting like kids??

> Why is it that people are spreading what you claim are false rumors about death camp kids?

Because most of our High Holies are bad parents and even worse “Elders” Keep in mind that these “black khaki” punks you and others in the Family despise are products of Hippy parents.

> If a child throws things at me or takes my property I will restrain them. I will put my hands on them. If you object I suggest you either stay away from me or teach your children to not throw things at people or take other people’s things.

You would not put your hands on my child unless you want to lose your arm. It’s as simple as that.

From: Sanity
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Are you still a troll here? I thought you got the memo. You're been promoted!!

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> > If a child throws things at me or takes my property I will restrain them. I will put my hands on them. If you object I suggest you either stay away from me or teach your children to not throw things at people or take other people’s things.
> You would not put your hands on my child unless you want to lose your arm. It’s as simple as that.

(laughs) Simple fact is I would, and you wouldn’t. I take action, I’m not just talk. There are a few people posting here that know that about me because they have seen me take action at gatherings and councils. You are one of them.

After you had been in council to deal with your sexual harassment of an 18 year old sister you went to the area she was camped. You were warned not to. I and two others spotted you on the trail before the camp and blocked you. We told you in no uncertain terms that this one small area of the Ocala gathering was off limits to you and you would not be permitted to walk any farther down this trail. You talked and talked, whined and argued. Nothing you said changed our mind. In the end you turned around and walked away. I take action, you walk away. End of story. You remember that b?

From: Carla
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> > Im not interested in talking with you..You people make me sick. Believe your stupid rumors because you will not believe the truth. I am not going to be your whipping boy old man.
> /shrug whatever. If you refuse to share any information I have no choice but to believe the rumors I’ve heard since they come from people I know or from people who have earned my respect as honest people.

Methinks “Erika” and Bodhi may be one and the same. Not the first time he has had “supporters” show up out of the blue that I have suspected this.

From: thistle-m
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> Methinks "Erika" and Bodhi may be one and the same. Not the first time he has had "supporters" show up out of the blue that I have suspected this.

Thanks for pointing that out. I checked the headers and both erika and b have the same ip address, NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.9.61.185. Erika is almost surely b. You know, I’ve heard that people do this but I can’t understand why anyone would be that big a phony and play that game. I’m pretty good at catching a vibe when I’m talking to someone and telling when they lie, but this sock puppet thing is just so alien to the way I think that I’m easily fooled by such dishonesty.

From: bodhi
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> Methinks “Erika” and Bodhi may be one and the same. Not the first time he has had “supporters” show up out of the blue that I have suspected this.

Methinks you’re full of shit. I think I mentioned I am in the guide and groups of kids are passing thru town on the way to Washington. They are currently camping outside the town where allegedly Rob Savoy lives.

Unlike some folks who put their name in the guide I provide overnight lodging, a bite to eat, and a shower to anyone who has a belly button. These kids are your typical black khaki road dawg gutter punks. and while travelling across the country from the Annual they called up “Family” in the guide for showers. Do you know how many “Family” helped them out on their journey? None, zip, zilch. One brother who I would love to name here told there kids after meeting them in a coffee shop that he couldn’t help them with a shower because they were ... get this .... too dirty! LOL!

Anyways the kids have been in and out all week and last night I left the computer on to let the kids check their e-mails. The topic of the assault on a child has been a topic of conversation in this household all week and the kids have been reading AGR. I’m still laughing at the comments Erika made last night. You really don’t have a clue to what is going on with Death Camp, do you?

Think whatever you want I don’t care. As one of the kids said to me today before they left for the mountains, “The High Holies have condemned themselves by their own words.”

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> Methinks you’re full of shit. I think I mentioned I am in the guide and groups of kids are passing thru town on the way to Washington. They are currently camping outside the town where allegedly Rob Savoy lives.

O can exccept that e xplaination since I do the same thing....but after efieving all the post I think its all bullshit and hyperbole..... there was no “mob: or hi hloies since if there were SOMEONE would be able to identify at least one of them and put a name to him.,...yet disputre my repeated requests fo at least one name none had been offered I judy cannot accpet the story as you tell it ...and I am left with accpeting bill and karins version of it ...and as fair as death camp goes ...those stories ate NOT camp firestories...they HAVR attecked people ...thrown pisss and feces on p[eple. .they have kicked and attcked people ...they have stolen and broken phones and cammers ....and they are trouble makers of ghe first order and they should be dealt with and as fair as Im concerned their behaviour shold not be tolerated

From: Chuck
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> Methinks "Erika" and Bodhi may be one and the same. Not the first time he has had "supporters" show up out of the blue that I have suspected this.

I just thought it good to point out that bodhi would have had to invent Erika some time ago in order to have this history.

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> (laughs) Simple fact is I would, and you wouldn’t. I take action, I’m not just talk.

Simple fact is Thistle I don’t have children. if I did and I found out you disciplined my child in any way involving force your new nickname would be “stumpy” because there are alot of hatchets in the woods laying around and accidents do happen.

> There are a few people posting here that know that about me because they have seen me take action at gatherings and councils. You are one of them.

> After you had been in council to deal with your sexual harassment of an 18 year old sister.

The “sexual harassment” as you call it was simply giving a CONSENSUAL nude massage to a kind sister (which believe it or not DOES happen occasionally at gatherings). The reason I was giving her a nude massage is because her husband was constantly yelling at her and telling her she was ugly and should be ashamed of her body. It was a verbally abusive relationship and the sister was suffering serious self-esteem issues. Tho it’s none of your business I was a trying to heal a sister of her shame.

That night around the campfire she told another sister about her beautiful afternoon. Unfortunately she mentioned my name in connection with a nude massage and someone overheard her.

It didn’t take long for the High Holies to surround her and tell her how irresponsible and dangerous she was acting. Whenever she said how gentle and proper I was behaving, the High Holy magpies would counter that I was “manipulating her” and that she was too stupid to figure things out for herself. They wanted her to testify in open council the next day after harranging her all night with horrible fear stories about how I was a maniac. She declined to show up to your witch trial for two reasons, 1) she felt I didn’t do no harm and 2) she was horrified that her husband would find out and she would have to pay hell later.

She threw water on the wood you had stacked for my burning at the stake - much to everybody’s disappointment. But that didn’t stop you did it? Even without the “victim” showing up in “court” I still had to endure a lecture from my “elders”

Here’s a scoop kids. If you’re “in” with the High Holies you can get away with murder. If the offense is too grievous to ignore you’re allowed to “rehabilitate” yourself in Jesus camp before you’re allowed back in the “inner circle” Did you want me to name all the so-called “Elders” whom have taken that route? You would be surprised at the names I could bring up. But unlike some folks I don’t gossip. Now if you happen to be on the High Holy shit list - which I was at the time - you can expect ugly rumors to surround you and every good thing you do will be twisted out of proportion.

I went to the camp because I lived there. How do you think I knew about her abusive relationship with her husband?

Who gave you the right to block me in a National Forest when I was not a danger to myself or anyone else? You exceeded your authority (what “authority” - you have none) and made an ass out of yourself.

> We told you in no uncertain terms that this one small area of the Ocala gathering was off limits to you and you would not be permitted to walk any farther down this trail.

Only when you bring it up to demonstrate what an authoritarian asshole you are. Seriously, at the same Ocala gathering one of our teepee Elders slept with the pregnant wife of another man. The brother found out about the relationship and slashed the Elder’s teepee with a knife. The Elder threatened to call in some friends from a nearby motorcycle gang and fix the situation in a violent and ugly manner. Both brothers were wandering about the gathering with knives and threats of violence against each other. I don’t recall seeing you block him from walking down the trail, and none of the Elders had the balls to confront him with a council. Do you remember who spent the night in front of the teepee to keep the Elder from getting his throat cut by the cuckold husband? Who actually put his life at risk to ensure no-one got killed?

Do you remember who confronted the kids weilding knives that want to kill Benji from Oz kitchen because of a dog fight involving Shady Grove? Who was it that walked into their camp while they were plotting to kill the whole Oz kitchen crew? Or do you know who it was that laid in front of a car to prevent a 16 year old girl from leaving the gathering with a couple really creepy middle-age men who were feeding her acid all gathering?

From: Carla
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> I just thought it good to point out that bodhi would have had to invent Erika some time ago in order to have this history.
> http://www.fanfiction.net/u/775402/EpitomeofDistraction

If Erika is at the gathering next summer and would like to introduce herself to me, I would be happy to apologize to her.

From: sam
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> Anyways the kids have been in and out all week and last night I left the computer on to let the kids check their e-mails.

From: Carla
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> If Erika is at the gathering next summer and would like to introduce herself to me, I would be happy to apologize to her.

She can find me with the rest of the Over-the-Hill-High-Holies in my lawn chair at the Traveling Antiques Roadshow Camp.

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Only when you bring it up to demonstrate what an authoritarian asshole you are. Seriously, at the same Ocala gathering one of our teepee Elders slept with the pregnant wife of another man. The brother found out about the relationship and slashed the Elder’s teepee with a knife. The Elder threatened to call in some friends from a nearby motorcycle gang and fix the situation in a violent and ugly manner. Both brothers were wandering about the gathering with knives and threats of violence against each other.

banes bidhi names ...without names styories are meaninless .... to use terms like “hi holie’s” or greey bereads paint with simply to broad a brush to have any meaning what so ever ...if someone assualted you say who it was ...ifsomeoen assulted someone else ... you say who it was .... to just say hi holie or grey bread is like saying a hippie assulted me ...or awoman assulted me ....its vertually meaningless and adds nothing to this discisson...which lost any signifigant meaning when you failed to give any names when requested for the alledged incedent ....

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> She can find me with the rest of the Over-the-Hill-High-Holies in my lawn chair at the Traveling Antiques Roadshow Camp.

what .. is that the new name for lovin ovens ...(smirk)...remember to bring your bridge deck and a card table.... opening bid==> 2 no trump

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Simple fact is Thistle I don’t have children. if I did and I found out you disciplined my child in any way involving force your new nickname would be “stumpy” because there are alot of hatchets in the woods laying around and accidents do happen.

No you wouldn’t. Because you and I are different. I take action and you’re just talk.

> The “sexual harassment” as you call it was simply giving a CONSENSUAL nude massage to a kind sister (which believe it or not DOES happen occasionally at gatherings). The reason I was giving her a nude massage is because her husband was constantly yelling at her and telling her she was ugly and should be ashamed of her body. It was a verbally abusive relationship and the sister was suffering serious self-esteem issues. Tho it’s none of your business I was a trying to heal a sister of her shame.

You have your version of what happened, the sister had a different version. I have no interest in getting into the details again, unless you want me to.

> That night around the campfire she told another sister about her beautiful afternoon. Unfortunately she mentioned my name in connection with a nude massage and someone overheard her. It didn’t take long for the High Holies to surround her and tell her how irresponsible and dangerous she was acting. Whenever she said how gentle and proper I was behaving, the High Holy magpies would counter that I was “manipulating her” and that she was too stupid to figure things out for herself.

Now b, you know that’s not true. The last time we discussed it you had a different story. You claimed it was two young sisters, friends of the women you gave a massage to that called the council. Last time you claimed the two young sisters were the one’s that manipulated both her and the high holies.

> They wanted her to testify in open council the next day after harranging her all night with horrible fear stories about how I was a maniac.

Again, that’s not true. She didn’t spend the night with high holies. She spent the night with her friends, these two sisters, in the camp I was hanging with. Last time you told this story it was these sisters, kids, that manipulated her all night and manipulated the high holies. Last time it was all these nasty sisters that hated you causing all the problems. This time her friends have disappeared and its just the high holies. (laughs)

> She declined to show up to your witch trial for two reasons, 1) she felt I didn’t do no harm and 2) she was horrified that her husband would find out and she would have to pay hell later.
> She threw water on the wood you had stacked for my burning at the stake - much to everybody’s disappointment. But that didn’t stop you did it? Even without the “victim” showing up in “court” I still had to endure a lecture from my “elders”

Me bodhi? I didn’t call any council. I never suggested there should be a council. I didn’t even know about it until it was already scheculed. I was told by the two young sisters who were friends with the women you gave a massage to there would be a council at noon tomorrow. It was those two sisters, kids you would call them, that talked to those you call high holies and convinced them to call a council. It was those two sisters that told me there would be a council. I just showed up because they are my friends.

> > I and two others spotted you on the trail before the camp and blocked you.
> Who gave you the right to block me in a National Forest when I was not a danger to myself or anyone else? You exceeded your authority (what “authority” - you have none) and made an ass out of yourself.

There was a camp council, called by the sisters, kids as you would say, who asked that you be kept out of the camp. You were hassling them to get them to shut up they claimed. They claimed you were stalking them and others claimed they saw you stalking them. They claimed you were trying to stop them from going to the elders with their complaint. All the people at the camp agreed with the kids that they had a right to have peace where their tents were. We all said we would stop you from entering since it was just one tiny area in a large gathering at the end of the trail at the edge of the gathering. The whole camp decided we had the authority to keep you out of our camp. I just happened to be there when you attempted to enter our camp. I joined two other men in stopping you.

Some may say we had no right to have peace in our camp and to keep you out. I disagree and so did the others in the area.

And there’s the whole point. You’re threats are meaningless to me. Because you’re just talk and I take action.

But you always seem to be bragging about it. Funny that everyone who has spent time with you calls you a liar, con, thief, abuser.

From: Sanity
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> > Methinks “Erika” and Bodhi may be one and the same. Not the first time he has had “supporters” show up out of the blue that I have suspected this.
> I just thought it good to point out that bodhi would have had to invent Erika some time ago in order to have this history.
> http://www.fanfiction.net/u/775402/EpitomeofDistraction

I can’t tell from here for certain whether Erika and Bodhi are one and the same or not. Carla/Snarla’s suspicion coupled with Thistle’s ISP search [which I am not computer literate enough to duplicate] is insufficient evidence to convince me. I know Bodhi’s pulled some slick Usenet stuff before, but OTOH I’ve seen Carla/Snarla & Thistle acting just like the überlordin’ High Holies Bodhi has been talking about. I don’t know who to believe.

I do know any mother who says “keep your hands off my child” ought to have her wish respected. Is Carla/Snarla a mother? I think a mother would empathize with another mother’s right to say who could or couldn’t discipline her children, while a social worker might prefer the politically correct “it takes a village” paradigm over the rights of an individual…

I don’t know anything about Death Camp other than what I’ve read on AGR, and rumors are rumors. It sounds a lot like the Chaos Camp that played with firecrackers in Michigan and I didn’t care at all for their antics. Two year old mentalities screaming “PAY ATTENTION TO ME!” are not at gatherings to be peaceable.

Oh well, this Thread’s become more flame than solution seeking, so I’ll quit it.

From: hj st
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> Are you still a troll here? I thought you got the memo. You're been promoted!!

i just have one question,.. did you talk that girl into post for you before, or after, the shower,..

ok, two questions,.. did you make her feel pretty, and give her a nude masage too? .. or was her boyfriend too close?

From: Carla
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> what .. is that the new name for lovin ovens ...(smirk)...remember to bring your bridge deck and a card table.... opening bid==> 2 no trump

Nah, it’s what I have always thought of as the “Cackling Crones Camp,” which sometimes camps near the Ovens. We were dubbed “Traveling Antiques Roadshow” by Abe when we were hanging at the Ovens in New Mexico. At our advanced collective ages the altitude was a challenge, but nevertheless we made the effort to be active, moving our chairs from one area of the camp to another throughout the day ...

I will definitely bring a deck of cards, and I’ll have to double your opening bid as I will be holding 22 points and 7 hearts my first hand. Of course, I plan on ending up with a Grand Slam in hearts, so keep the bidding going!

You, of course, will have to be declared an honorary Crone in order to gain entrance to our sanctum sanctorum. I hope that’s okay. You will be tested on your ability to cackle over the slightest amusement.

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> I don’t know anything about Death Camp other than what I’ve read on AGR, and rumors are rumors. It sounds a lot like the Chaos Camp that played with firecrackers in Michigan and I didn’t care at all for their antics. Two year old mentalities screaming “PAY ATTENTION TO ME!” are not at gatherings to be peaceable.

the dif being that chaos camp was adults doing disrupting criminal and violent things ....death camp its childern with the excpetion of the 17 year old and the parents ...but the main problem is children// the adult would be easy to handle if folks had the nerve to handle them

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: Erika from Fat Kids, sister camp of Death Camp wants to explain what’s happening with Death Camp kids
Date: August 14, 2010

> I will definitely bring a deck of cards, and I’ll have to double your opening bid as I will be holding 22 points and 7 hearts my first hand. Of course, I plan on ending up with a Grand Slam in hearts, so keep the bidding going!

> You, of course, will have to be declared an honorary Crone in order to gain entrance to our sanctum sanctorum. I hope that’s okay. You will be tested on your ability to cackle over the slightest amusement.

oh and ....redouble...Im a cunning player...and remember no trump givesy ou more points than a majpr ...and Im very good at no trump....wanna make it a penny a point and a buck a game deary...I can always use traveling money ...LOLOL

From: bodhi
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> > Being good Family is nothing to brag about.
> But you always seem to be bragging about it. Funny that everyone who has spent time with you calls you a liar, con, thief, abuser.

Let’s put this in perspective. You’re talking about an incident that occurred whaaat? 1997? 13 years ago? I’ve smoked too much dope since then to keep up with the facts but I do remember your lies.

The 1997 Ocala Winter Gathering at Buck Lake was one of the most violent and insane Rainbow Gathering I have ever attended in over 29 years of attending gatherings. I arrived for Thanksgiving and stayed until February. That’s 4 fucking months of doing Shanta Sena on some of the most insane, violent, disturbed individuals I have ever met in my life. Buck Lake that winter in 1997 was a very scary experiences. Buck Lake was a holding camp” until the Florida Family held their gathering in February. There was alot of disturbed individual and insane drama involved. I had knives pulled on me when I confronted those kids (in their 20s) at the former vegan kitchen who were planning to murder everyone at Oz Kitchen, I snuck up to their fire and listened to their plans and they were very serious about murder.. And you want to bitch about kids throwing rocks? Had I not interrupted these kids by myself I truely believe those kids at Oz would have been murdered that night - despite the fact that Benji stayed up all night with an axe and a crowbar next to his coffee pot. Everybody at Buck Lake was scared of these kids. The leader was an Australia guy named Bear who equipped these very disturbed kids with scary looking knives and blades. I confronted Bear and his knife welding kids and told him a council was being called on him the next day involving the entire camp. The next day they were gone.

Or how about the day a couple of local hunters were harassing two sisters and a young brother named Peace while they were collecting wood, I heard a horrible scream and ran to find Peace was savagely beating these hunters with a log. Had I not pulled him off he would’ve beat these guys to death. Hell, Boomer knows what I’m talking about. The violence was so bad and persuasive at Buck Lake that winter that Tree - a fine young brother at the time I greatly admire and I voluntarily duct taped ourselves to a tree one night!!!!! Let’s not forget the 16-year old sister I saved from being kidnapped. A couple of middle age guys was feeding her acid all gathering and was trying to take her off site.. I got my ass beat for that one.

Boomer remembers the incident when I asked two young brothers not to throw bic lighters in the fire because they were exploding -

Bodhi has been a very interesting person for me to observe and get to know. I am discovering that we are more alike than not and I am reacted to in much the same way if I’m not careful.

The first time I saw bodhi, he was hanging out at Buck Lake. He was attempting to have an intelligent conversation with a few brothers. These guys got so angry at bodhi that they all attacted him and beat him into the ground for about 30 seconds before wolverine could break it up. everyone else was just standing around watching and looking for something to smoke.

As he sat on the path with tears in his eyes I noticed him watching the guys that beat him up. I knew that there was more to this guy than meets the eye.

Buck Lake was a nightmare. I spent 4 months in madness running around in the middle of the night until we moved in February over to the site the Florida Family had picked out. Then I kicked it around the fire with Joanee, Scotty Addison, Arjay, Boomer, Barry Sacrow and the rest of the Florida Family. I later traveled to Miami to help Barry with a festival. If I was acting like an asshole during the time you met me it was because I was tired and cranky. All these sexual innuendo being thrown about me were ridiculousness. I was celibate at the time. Dia knows all about my celibacy. No, my problem was I was very protective of the sisters in a “pappa bear” way. Some would say I was over protective. I would be called a “cock-blocker” by young brother looking to score and jealous rumors would spread from there. I spent the whole winter in Ocala sleeping alone in my tent even though their were plenty of sisters available.

I was accused of giving a nude sister a massage. I was fully clothed. At no time was my sexual part exposed. At no time did I suggest we go further. At no time was I not respectful.

i look to God for any guidance i need. God sees into my heart and there is no denying that God knows, better than any “busy bodies” what i have done wrong.

i have nothing to hide, have done nothing to be ashamed of. i have done nothing to defend myself against.

There are many sisters of the Rainbow who have travelled with me over the years. They know, better than you or any “gossip mongers” what i’m all about.

Don’t you think if i was such the “perv” as some ugly, jealous people think i am, that i would’ve been run out of the gathering long ago??? Where are my accusers? Where are the sisters i supposly mistreated and took advantage of?

Sarah C (the sheriff) looked into these alligations last year that were swirling around. She told me point blank that if she found ANYONE i had harmed or molested, that i would be dealt with by the “wreaking crew”

She was giving me the chance to pack my bags and leave before extreme actions were to be taken.

i’m still here buddy. You can take your dirty “morals”, you and the other gossip mongrels, and shove them up where the sun don’t shine! i answer to God, not you, nor anyone in the Rainbow Family.

From: rainbowcry...@yahoo.com
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 14, 2010

> i’m still here buddy. You can take your dirty “morals”, you and the other gossip mongrels, and shove them up where the sun don’t shine! i answer to God, not you, nor anyone in the Rainbow Family.

bodhi nothing that BB or karin has said is gossip...its first hand eye witness testimony.....such as would be admitted in a court of law ...that along with the video are all the evidence we have ...nothing that...erica offered nothing but insults...and youve offered nothing but hearsay ...and in addtion youve refused to name any names ....so what si anyone supposed to do but have informed oppinions ...and the only real information availible at this point is BB and karin.... unless youd like ot add your own eye witness perspective ..or provide at least the names of these hi hiolies who are supposed to have mugged t his 17 year old “girl” who is more then old enough to point out here attackers if such was the case ....and I should remind you bodhi that just because someone has grey heair that doesnt mnake them a “hi holies” a term that has always been used to discribe a “certain and particular “ group of people ...not just any old self impresed grey hair ...Id say maybe theres 20 or 40 peoplewho heve been refered to as hi holiesand we all know those names ....how ever if you are refering to just some anonymus grey haird asswipe then your painting with a very wide brush ...how do we know this wasnt some outlaw bike at his first gathering ...who got caught up in of previous life style behaviour .. pr some lost a-camper..(we’re all a work in progess right..??) your complaints cant even begin to be dealt with unless we know who we’re talking about and what they did .... youve provided neither ....you know me bodhi... give me something ot work with and I’ll work with ya ... but youve given me/us nothing...nothing to work with at all other than accusation and diatribe based on oppinion of what may or may not have happend and no offer of real facts.....

From: thistle-m
Subject: The High Holies Tackled a Child and Threw Her To The Ground
Date: August 15, 2010

> gathering in February. There was alot of disturbed individual and insane drama involved. I had knives pulled on me when I confronted those kids (in their 20s) at the former vegan kitchen who were planning to murder everyone at Oz Kitchen, I snuck up to their fire and listened to their plans and they were very serious about murder.. And you want to bitch about kids throwing rocks? Had I not interrupted these kids by myself I truely believe those kids at Oz would have been murdered that night - despite the fact that Benji stayed up all night with an axe and a crowbar next to his coffee pot. Everybody at Buck Lake was scared of these kids. The leader was an Australia guy named Bear who equipped these very disturbed kids with scary looking knives and blades. I confronted Bear and his knife welding kids and told him a council was being called on him the next day involving the entire camp. The next day they were gone.

There are those that laugh at rainbow councils. Those who feel they don’t accomplish much. Yet here we had a group of knife wielding stone cold killers about to chop up everyone of the Oz kids. “I truely believe those kids at Oz would have been murdered that night.” Ten, maybe twenty kids slaughtered, chopped up by knife weilding maniacs. Did these cold hearted killers feel any trepidation at the thought of slicing up a dozen or more kids? No. Where they worried about a police investigation? Not one bit, they were stone cold murderers.

But Bodhi called a told them he was calling a council the next day, and the next day they were gone. Think of the lives that were saved.

From: ohlo...@hotmail.com
Subject: Death Camp Kids - the Video
Date: August 15, 2010

On Aug 9, 8:29 pm, “rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com” <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > It’s the whole issue, in my opinion. This situation was created with at least the blessing of the parents and probably because they scripted it.
> HO

From: rainbowcha
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

Reading this post I see a lot of people agree on certain things that happened that day, but everyone starts their statement off by saying “I heard ...........”

sure would be helpful if REAL eyewitnesses weighed in, the rest is just a 206 post block all founded on speculation

There were two guys pushing and throwing dukes at each other, obviously i had missed something

during this time, a young dread-locked girl yelled out loud about the evils of old people and how disgusting they and their nudity was - the male member of one couple she yelled at, late 20?s and naked, called out her “Lovin` You, Sister”

the group then exited and the girl kicked me in the shin as she walked by after I smiled at her

In the group I heard one man, at least 20s to mid 20s, say to the others “Let`s get out of here before I have to beat someone up”

Then another adult stood in the circle for a while crying and screaming that she “Would not be Silenced !!”

This incident may involve generational gaps as seen by some involved but with such an age diversity, even in the same group, it is certainly not the main motivation or problem as I see it

From: Will Dockery
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

> sure would be helpful if REAL eyewitnesses weighed in, the rest is just a 206 post block all founded on speculation
> When I walked into the meadow I walked right into the middle of the whole thing
> Here`s what I saw:

Excellent... an eyewitness account of what you saw (sorry I don’t know your name, all that I’m seeing at the top of this post as I type this is “rainbowcha” and I’m sure that isn’t it), and it would be great if more come forward with exactly what was seen, not passing along hearsay.

Will Dockery, Folk Rock / Blues / Experimental:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

From: patfromlogan
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

Will, “it would be great if more come forward with exactly what was seen, not passing along hearsay.”

Hee hee hee, ha ha ha! That’s not the way we do things around here!” said the WickedWitch of the West. “On to him!! Quick Hurry my evil little monkey trolls!!” she cackled and cackled, smiling ear to ear.

From: Will Dockery
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

> Hee hee hee, ha ha ha! That’s not the way we do things around here!” said the WickedWitch of the West. “On to him!! Quick Hurry my evil little monkey trolls!!” she cackled and cackled, smiling ear to ear.

Will Dockery, Folk Rock / Blues / Experimental:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

From: patfromlogan
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

> Will, “it would be great if more come forward with exactly what was seen, not passing along hearsay.”

Haven’t you heard about the mob, nay, call it an army, of Nazi High Holies? Sorry Will, but there is just negotiating with child hating fascists that tackle the innocent children.

Perhaps we should deal with the High Holie (householders!!) by delving into their psychology. Why do they hate children. Some here suggest it’s because of the children’s exposure of the High Holie Mob’s hypocrisy. I think it goes deeper.

#1 Unresolved issues about your own upbringing and childhood experiences, including anger that things were not pleasant or peaceful for you as a child

#2 Resentment that children nowadays have what you never had; feelings about life having been harder when you were young and how children have it way too easy these days compared to your childhood

#3 Having a rough childhood due to being picked on, experiencing verbal, emotional, physical or sexual abuse

#4 High sensitivity and inability to deal with the noise and mess that children create

#7 Inability to raise your own children in the way that you wished you could have or an inability to bond properly with your own children due to depression, stress, family issues etc.

#8 Anger at loss of grown-up children to their own lives and reasoning that all children turn into adults and just hurt their parents

#9 Anger and unresolved issues around the loss of a child of your own - perhaps you did not receive adequate support and counseling and now live with sadness and anger that remain untreated

#10 Fear for your possessions - some people are afraid children will break, dirty or steal their possessions and become obsessed with keeping children out of their home or property for fear of such a possibility

4, 5, and 10 seem to apply. They are noisy; now what is wrong with a poorly played horn at main meadow on the morning of the 4th? Nothing, unless your soul is corrupted! And for 5, it’s natural for the tykes to run and exercise; high holies, get over it! And 10 makes the most sense - the Nazis want to protect their physical and emotional and (fake) spiritual possessions.

The only way this can be resolved is for the conceited narrow minded ego tripping High Holies to get off their peace pole and come down to earth!

From: az whistler
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

> 4, 5, and 10 seem to apply. They are noisy; now what is wrong with a poorly played horn at main meadow on the morning of the 4th? Nothing, unless your soul is corrupted! And for 5, it’s natural for the tykes to run and exercise; high holies, get over it! And 10 makes the most sense - the Nazis want to protect their physical and emotional and (fake) spiritual possessions.
> The only way this can be resolved is for the conceited narrow minded ego tripping High Holies to get off their peace pole and come down to earth!

The ONLY purpose of the “peace-pole” is to draw, like flies to shit, the whack-a-doodles, and have most of them in a central location where they can be ‘baby-sat’ while the general pop. can do the Circle of Silent Focus. Apparently, this year, there was no space in the meadow and so all cluster-fucked around the Idiot-pole.

YES, crack-heads and other such dip-shits WILL steal your shit, often tools that may be quite necessary for ones business and/or employment, and sell or trade said such expensive equipment for 10% of replacement.

From: Sanity
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17 2010

> Perhaps we should deal with the High Holie (householders!!) by delving into their psychology. Why do they hate children. Some here suggest it’s because of the children’s exposure of the High Holie Mob’s hypocrisy. I think it goes deeper.
> Let’s look at Wiki answers on child hating: WHY???

If everyone at the Silence would ignore the attemps of these children to disrupt I think they’ go play elsewhere. Fat chance; but I’m just sayin’.

From: Connie
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

From: rainbowcha
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

> > 4, 5, and 10 seem to apply. They are noisy; now what is wrong with a poorly played horn at main meadow on the morning of the 4th?

Connie, are you saying that YOU SAW someone playing the trombone and what happened immediately after, or are you repeating what you heard elsewhere ?

From: rainbowcha
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

> Connie, are you saying that YOU SAW someone playing the trombone and what happened immediately after, or are you repeating what you heard elsewhere ?
> - a simple question

From: bodhi
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 17, 2010

> The ONLY purpose of the “peace-pole” is to draw, like flies to shit, the whack-a-doodles, and have most of them in a central location where they can be ‘baby-sat’ while the general pop. can do the Circle of Silent Focus. Apparently, this year, there was no space in the meadow and so all cluster-fucked around the Idiot-pole.

I have to agree the Peace Pole seems to attract the whack-a-doodles in our Family. At my one and only experience at the Peace Pole on the 4th (as a favor to a friend) I found the Santa Fe contingent of New Agers mixed in with the Montana cult of Barry. The only interruption I witnessed at the Peace Pole was when one of Plunker’s disciples introduced the great man as he arrived, Plunker spoke for about five minutes and one of Plunker’s female disciples did a follow-up and summarized the great man’s word. The deification continued for a few more minutes until Plunker began the OM.

> YES, crack-heads and other such dip-shits WILL steal your shit, often tools that may be quite necessary for ones business and/or employment, and sell or trade said such expensive equipment for 10% of replacement.

Until a better explanation is given, I’m going to conclude the Peace Pole is blasphemous and disrespectful to everything Rainbow stands for and should be removed as a public safety hazard. It’s causes the Hi- Hos massive Egos to explode and they go insane!.According to BB it was a mob of Hi-Hos that surrounded the girls when they entered the meadow (and at that point had nothing but musical instruments they were playing.) After being surrounded by this “O-mmm mob” they went back to their camp for re-inforcements - more musical instruments and firecrackers. The hi-hos escalated the incident further by Ommm-ing the girls a second time - thus leading to a Shanta Sena Movie in which a child was throw to the ground. According to BB this wasn’t the only incident that day. A couple disrupted the Silence by announcing some 2012 prophesy. There were swarmed over by the hi-hos and Ommm-ed over until they were silenced. Luckily a Shanta Sena Movie didn’t erupt over that one.

From: rainbowcha
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

> According to BB it was a mob of Hi-Hos that surrounded the girls when they entered the meadow (and at that point had nothing but musical instruments they were playing.)

if noone steps forward to say what They SAW, i am going to have to assume this never happened

From: Karin Zirk
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

“whistler” <azwhi...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:9a74d5db-d670-431f-b79a-45ed0a62584b@v8g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

From: hj st
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

maybe next year folks could align some angst into action and burn the peace pole down,... respectfully, together,.. for peace,..

From: hj st
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

> If everyone at the Silence would ignore the attemps of these children to disrupt I think they' go play elsewhere. Fat chance; but I'm just> sayin’

folks don’t attain magically the abilty to become adept at meditation and manifestation simply by being around any focus, it means they are seeking something still in themselves first.

hell, there were grown adults screaming ‘prophecy’ crap across the meadow that were more disturbing to me than *any* alternative childrens parade or preamble,.... before, during or after any period of silence, OMing or celebration.

From: Sanity
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

> hell, there were grown adults screaming ‘prophecy’ crap across the meadow that were more disturbing to me than *any* alternative childrens parade or preamble,.... before, during or after any period of silence, OMing or celebration.

From: Finch
Subject: Death Camp Kids - REALITY CHECK
Date: August 16, 2010

People have been asking for eyewitness accounts, and there has been discussion about the apparent differences between Karin and BB’s stories. So here is my account of what happened from what I can recall. To clarify: From all I have seen and heard it appears the children were in the circle BEFORE I ARRIVED with musical instruments. I heard that second hand, so do not vouch to know the exactitudes of it. I DID hear firecrackers that were being set off near the Main Circle before Death Camp arrived. AFTER they arrived I saw one fuse lit, and it was a SMOKE bomb. Here’s my account.

“I was near the center of the meditation circle, 2 or 3 rings out, near the side of the meadow where info booth and River Rats were located. First I heard the Death Campers shouting from the River Rats area (the direction, not necessarily the camp), things like “What? We can’t hear you! Why don’t you say something? You’re all a bunch of weirdos and pedophiles! Put your clothes on!” They started marching toward the circle. I don’t recall any instruments, like the ones I’ve seen referenced in this thread. They had their (as I’ve been told, stolen) video camera, and hollering louder. At one point, one of them shouted that Grampa Woodstock was a pedophile, which seemed to cause some internal disagreement. They argued for a moment then said, “No, Grampa Woodstock’s cool.” One of them threw a smoke bomb. I had been hearing firecrackers earlier, and everyone moved away quickly, assuming I’m sure (as I was) that the thing might explode. After it was clear that it would only smoke, a brother went and stomped it out. It was at this point that the kids started wandering through the circle taunting people, calling them freaks and pedophiles, apparently trying to cross the line and tempt someone to strike them. One brother was going behind them quietly telling people, “Don’t react, they’re just provocateurs”. Finally one brother snapped, and there was some act of violence. I didn’t see exactly what transpired but what I’ve gathered is that he threw a little girl to the ground. Instantly there was a body pile-up as people simultaneously all tried to pull eachother off of the scuffle. When it cleared the kids were righteously outraged; the little girl was sobbing, and they other kids were shouting “That’s fucked up, why would you hit kids, fuck you” and the like. Then a group surrounded them and om’d at them, they got louder, the ‘om’ got louder, and the kids were eventually pushed out of the circle. Then there was a little confusion as to whether to ‘om’ early or stay silent, and the kids parade marched in very subdued and kind of waited before the actual ‘om’ and party got started.”

The 2010 Pennsylvania gathering was the last one that Death Camp attended as a group. The husband and wife separated before the next one, and the family dispersed.

Google Advanced Group Search can be accessed by first calling up a group name in Google Groups (alt.gathering.rainbow is at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.gathering.rainbow) and then clicking on the little black arrowhead inside the search window at the top of the page – at the extreme right, just to the left of the blue magnifying glass search button).

Not all posts can be found in Google’s archive; posters had the option of putting “X-No-Archive” in their headers, and some other posts are apparently completely lost for other reasons. Using their search engine is also hit and miss; I sometimes had to try several combinations of words to find some posts. The originals of all of these posts can most easily be found by enclosing the thread name in quotation marks in the Subject: box.