Death Camp part 4

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Death Camp – part 4

I have no idea how to tell the difference between firecrackers and smoke bombs, but there were lots of them being lit and a few that got tossed before people could stop it. Some of them where on a stick and looked like firecrackers to me based on what I see when I google images of firecrackers. Some of them were on stick and looked remarkable like bottle rockets I see being sold online.

On Aug 9, 7:40 pm, Pat Easterling <easterling_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Anyhow, this is much todo about nothing much, eh? Now why don’t we just get back to the purpose and meaning of this forum and argue about something that means so much, like that wonderful video? Oh, and my kids think Death Camp is funny, but then they think OZ has great food.

Id be happy to show the video again if you asked me too... but usually I reserve it for when tweeker bill asked me to run it ...which he does each and every time he appears here ......LOLOLOL

On Aug 9, 3:35 am, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > This is a joke thread as are all threads started by b.
> I discussed in my original post my thoughts on the matter - which I have noticed you haven’t addressed.

Very few people were present at this incident. The young people I know wouldn’t make assumptions about who was guilty based on rumors. They are mostly kind, loving, rational, people who would withhold judgment until all the facts from beginning to end were discovered.

Even if the worst of the rumors are to be believed at most maybe a couple of dozen “greybeards” as you call them, were involved. Out of at least 1000 older people at the gathering. No young people that I know would take some bad behavior by a small group and blame every person of approximately the same age, the vast majority who were no where near the incident.

No young person I know would ever say they hope no old people will come to a regional because a few old people might have done something wrong. Also at no point in reading posts by the young people focalizing the Washington regional did they ever post anything negative concerning older people.

While I’ve heard occasional griping about drainbows I’ve never heard young people singling out older people in that griping. Young people know that drainbows exist in every age group and I’ve heard them complaining about young drainbows as often as middle aged drainbows and older drainbows.

I’ve never heard young people suggesting that they or anyone should stop feeding old people because they are drainbows.

Whatever happened with the firecrackers and the attempts to restrain those throwing them I know of no young person who would go off on an ageist rant like b. I don’t believe for an instant that the words b is posting are the thoughts and feelings of young people.

The only people I know who would make an attack like this on a group of people, most of which were no where near the reported incident, would be bodhi, bill, and lookingheart.

On Aug 10, 1:35 am, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Some Bullshit

You know asshole, I havent posted on this thread nor do I have any comments on the subject other then various people are in the wrong, including those who excuse such behavior. Much like most people at the gatherings, I do not support what was done to the folks who where there to pray nor am I “down” with the child abuse that followed - those who exacted violence on others do not represent the Rainbow Family - kinda like AGR. Yours, Stubbies and Olooney’s violence here on AGR has little to do with the Rainbow Family as well.

So what was accomplished? There is now more hate in the world and even more hate being generated here on AGR. Think your not involved in that process, think again. You are as much to blame for that generation of hate as I am, as is Stubbie and Olooney, as is Karen, as is Bodhi, ect., ect., ect.

As for Bodhi, we dont get along however I do respect the fact that he is passionnant in the causes he supports - I dont have to agree with his politics or methods.

On Aug 10, 9:47 am, Lookingheart <lookinghe...@peaceconspiracy.org> wrote:

> ect., ect., ect.

http://www.beedictionary.com/common-errors/ect__vs_etc_

On Aug 10, 10:13 am, Rick <mulemanr...@dishmail.net> wrote:

> http://www.beedictionary.com/common-errors/ect__vs_etc_

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-t7uVdID3s

On Aug 10, 8:13 am, Rick <mulemanr...@dishmail.net> wrote:

> http://www.beedictionary.com/common-errors/ect__vs_etc_

I think I caught his gist. Language is an art, not a codified science, and meanings drift etymologically. SLACK! Praise Bob.

“bodhi” <psychedel...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:be2db485-8398-4479-83c8-55d258541e4a@k1g2000prl.googlegroups.com...

> I have nothing but absolute contempt for Carla, Thistle, and Karin. I don’t consider them “Elders” and I don’t consider them “Family” They are what is wrong in this Family.

Thanks Bodhi - Elder schmelder. Age don’t make one person smarter than an other or wiser or dumber. Age is just age.

On Aug 10, 8:27 am, Sanity <sanity-cla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I think I caught his gist. Language is an art, not a codified science, and meanings drift etymologically. SLACK! Praise Bob.

Did you konw taht the frist and lsat letetrs benig in thier porepr palce is wahts msot improtnat in udnrestnadnig waht it is yuo’re raeding.

Language is an artform to be sure.

On Aug 10, 12:15 pm, “Karin Zirk” <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thanks Bodhi - Elder schmelder. Age don’t make one person smarter than an other or wiser or dumber. Age is just age.

I agree. I’ve certainly never claimed to be an elder and I’ve haven’t ever seen you or Carla make that claim.

I’m proud to be included in the same group as Karin and Carla though I don’t really think I’ve earned it therefore I don’t think I deserve it.

On Aug 10, 12:35 am, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Very few people were present at this incident. The young people I know wouldn’t make assumptions about who was guilty based on rumors. They are mostly kind, loving, rational, people who would withhold judgment until all the facts from beginning to end were discovered.

Then you need to get out more and widen your circle of friends. This incident on the 4th is a major topic of conversation among what BB calls the “black khaki” crowd. My contact information is in the guide this year and I have been meeting alot of kidz passing thru town on the way to Washington State for the regional. These kidz are frustrated at yet ~another~ High Holy shenanigan pulled against their group. They are outraged at the hypocrisy they see.among a group of people that preach unconditional love and tolerance and prolly wouldn’t be so judgmental if this was just an isolated incident. Just like how we could recall years of abuse from the LEOs after the Kiddie Village incident, so can these kidz recall other High Holy shenanigans against them

> No young people that I know would take some bad behavior by a small group and blame every person of approximately the same age, the vast majority who were no where near the incident.

The incident on the 4th reveals a culture of intolerance that is becoming prevalent at gatherings. We (our generation) are no-where near “Elder-ship” and to perpetuate this myth is to invite trouble. In order to heal this situation we must become honest with ourselves and admit we’re not ready to assume the role of “wisdom teacher” with all the honor and accolades that title bestows.

As far as I know we only have two true “Rainbow Elders” in our Family and they’re Gran’pa Woodstock and his new wife Estar. Both are in their 80s. We have at least 20 years to go before our Rainbow Children can sit at our knee and call us “Elder”

We screwed the pooch back in the 60s when we said “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” thus denying ourselves a future group of “Elders” in the Rainbow Family. Thus our young kidz have to deal with spiritual “parents” rather than spiritual “grandparents”

And that is creating problems.

Meanwhile, truth be told, many of the “greybeards” in our Family are angst-y, middle-age householders going thru some weird existential mid- life crisis. We still have some major issues in our spiritual journey to deal with before we can rest on our laurals. If we could be honest with these kidz rather than be something we’re not, it would go a long way in healing this culture of intolerance.

These kids need to know we’re all in this together. These kidz need to know we’re not perfect and we actually need help from them. The so- called “Elders” need to humble themselves

> Whatever happened with the firecrackers and the attempts to restrain those throwing them I know of no young person who would go off on an ageist rant like b.

An “ageist” rant LOL! I’m 55. I must be a “self-hating old fart” then.

> I don’t believe for an instant that the words b is posting are the thoughts and feelings of young people.

If half these Greybeards would get off their log at Lovin’ Ovens and hunker down around the bliss fire at some pirate camp and actually LISTEN to these kidz rather than giving them “advice” you might be very surprised at what you hear.

Then attend the “inner circle” around the friggin’ “peace pole” during the 4th and watch our generation make complete asses of themselves.

> The only people I know who would make an attack like this on a group of people, most of which were no where near the reported incident, would be bodhi, bill, and lookingheart.

All three of us agree it’s wrong to put your hand on a child PERIOD

Seems like the self-appointed “High Holies” on this group - Karin, Carla, Thistle, BB are all busy making excuses for the inexcusable.

“Oh we were in DANGER”

“It’s O.K to tackle a child - I should know - I’m a mental health professional”

“These are rotten kids who deserved everything they got”

“Bodhi is just stirring up shit nothing happened”

Need I say more???

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 10, 10:33 am, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Very few people were present at this incident. The young people I know wouldn’t make assumptions about who was guilty based on rumors. They are mostly kind, loving, rational, people who would withhold judgment until all the facts from beginning to end were discovered.
> Then you need to get out more and widen your circle of friends. This incident on the 4th is a major topic of conversation among what BB calls the “black khaki” crowd.

is it really? all this time i’ve felt this was created from a conversation or two you took part in, then expanded upon in your own style afterwards.

maybe when you start seeing people, instead of ‘sides’, then you’ll have more sway with your words, and your labels might stick.

you really should have been a politician, for all you speak for others with ease,..

peace,..

On Aug 10, 10:32 am, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I’m proud to be included in the same group as Karin and Carla though I don’t really think I’ve earned it therefore I don’t think I deserve it.

you want to be awoman...???.....LOLOL I agree ....Id much rather be lumped with carla or karin.... then most of the others who post here .....

On Aug 10, 1:33 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then you need to get out more and widen your circle of friends. This incident on the 4th is a major topic of conversation among what BB calls the “black khaki” crowd.

I don’t doubt that young people as well as old people are talking about it. Are you saying that these young people do make assumptions and decide who is guilty based on rumors? That they judge without bothering to get all the facts of the incident from beginning to end? I don’t believe that, but if its so I’m not interested in broadening my circle of friends to include people like that, whether young or old.

> admit we’re not ready to assume the role of “wisdom teacher” with all the honor and accolades that title bestows.

The only person I know who has tried to assume the role of “wisdom teacher” with all the honor and accolades that title bestows is some con man who calls himself bodhi.

In Theravada Buddhism

In Buddhism, bodhi means the awakening experience attained by Gautama Buddha and his accomplished disciples and refers to the unique consciousness of a fully liberated yogi. Bodhi is sometimes described as complete and perfect sanity, or awareness of the true nature of the universe.

Bodhi is attained when the ten fetters that bind a human being to the wheel of samsara have been dissolved; when the Four Noble Truths have been fully understood and all volitional conditioning has reached cessation (nirodha), giving rise to transcendent peace (nibbana). At this moment, the psychological roots of all greed (lobha), aversion (dosa), delusion (moha), ignorance (avijja), craving (tanha) and ego- centered consciousness (atta) are completely uprooted.

On Aug 10, 11:25 am, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I don’t doubt that young people as well as old people are talking about it. Are you saying that these young people do make assumptions and decide who is guilty based on rumors? That they judge without bothering to get all the facts of the incident from beginning to end? I don’t believe that, but if its so I’m not interested in broadening my circle of friends to include people like that, whether young or old.

IM still waiting for anyh proof this even happended ....Ive seen the video and I didnt see anyone get takled ...nor did I see any “older” people holding any children...and butterfly bills who was a eye witness ...does not support bodhis interpretation....I think its all bullshit ....aint it tweeker bill... your our bullshit expert

On Aug 10, 12:47 pm, “rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com” <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> IM still waiting for anyh proof this even happended ....Ive seen the video and I didnt see anyone get takled ...nor did I see any “older” people holding any children...and butterfly bills who was a eye witness ...does not support bodhis interpretation....I think its all bullshit ....aint it tweeker bill... your our bullshit expert

There’s a very small “don’t-fucking-post-directions-on-the-internet” road dawg “don’t-fucking-call-it-a regional” get-to-gether near the town Rob Savoy allegedly lives in. It’s a meet-up spot for kidz heading to Washington.

The kidz come down for food runs and showers because I’m in the Guide this year. I haven’t met anyone who witnessed the incident so that’s why I’m relying on BB’s narrative rather than second-hand information.

It’s apparent talking to these kidz (about 20 since the gathering) THEY heard from their peers enough information to believe it was several greybeard “elders” that initiated and escalated the brawl. Whether this is true or not time will tell. Another shocking things I’ve heard is their overwhelming support for the Death Camp Kidz. Many of these travelling kidz know the Death Camp Kidz personally.and consider them the C.G.Allen of Rainbow. LOL!

Or for us older folks - Fagin with a foul mouth.

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 10, 12:51 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It’s apparent talking to these kidz (about 20 since the gathering) THEY heard from their peers enough information to believe it was several greybeard “elders” that initiated and escalated the brawl. Whether this is true or not time will tell. Another shocking things I’ve heard is their overwhelming support for the Death Camp Kidz. Many of these travelling kidz know the Death Camp Kidz personally.and consider them the C.G.Allen of Rainbow. LOL!

comeon bodhi consider the source... the death camp peoples behaviour has been inexcusible for years ....and if anyone confronts them those kids scream childmolester what we do know from mullitbl;e sources is that those kids throw feces on people steal camera and break them ...threat violence to random folks on the trial...throw piss on people ...and where coached by criminally irresponsble parents to commit criminal acts .... anyone who would support death camp is not a reliable source and are in the long run no better than they are ....so all I can conclude from what YOUVE said ...is that the very premise of this post is flawed ...since your only admitted source is questionalble ....since the souces is highly questionable AND the report is inconsistant with reliable eyewitness reports as well as inconsistant with what is understood to be general practice ...theres no way any thinking person can accept that your perspective or what ever heard say youve recieved is correct ,...NO “grey beard /hightholie/elder” has been identified as having “tackled” or assualted any child and since the video shows nothing of the kinda the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that this is another example of rainbow rumour run amuck....if someone pops up who saw it .....and can point out any greybeard etc and put a name to him or her ... then there might be something to discuss ... but without any eye witness other then bb then bb’s and the video is the only word we have on the subject and bbs along with the video discription of the event does not jibe with what youve heard..... you must agree that any parent who would encourage and even go so far as to coach a child to commit a serious crime( stealing property damage and throwing feces or piss on a person is a first class felony) should be dealt with by the authoritys

On Aug 10, 12:51 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

what you are discribing is second or third hand hearsay evidence...Im currently involved with a possibe murder investigation....and we have better evidence on the suspect than that .... but hearsay...is not evidence...second hand or thrid hand hearsay is even less ...its not even hearsay its less then romour ...its rainbow mytholgy

> Another shocking things I’ve heard is their overwhelming support for the Death Camp Kidz. Many of these travelling kidz know the Death Camp Kidz personally.and consider them the C.G.Allen of Rainbow. LOL!

then consider the source ....they like and support people we know are violent disruptive and felonious...not very good sources bodhi

On Aug 10, 2:20 pm, “rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com” <rainbowcrystalkitc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> what you are discribing is second or third hand hearsay evidence...

yep, you’re correct. Here’s the “Zapruder” tho -

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=DKfsPlRAnYk&feature=related

At the beginning of the video you can heard the young sister off camera yelling loudly. At 0:09 you can clearly see a struggle break out in the center of the crowd Now folks are agitated. You can not hear any firecrackers so I must assume the tossing of the child to the ground ‘caused the crowd to become agitated. As the camera pans closer you see a very tight circle of mostly older Rainbows pinning down the girl. At 0:38 you can see her legs in the air clearly she is on the ground and several people are pinning here down

What you are witnessing here is a very serious crime..

> Im currently involved with a possibe murder investigation....and we have better evidence on the suspect than that ....

good luck with that investigation.

> but hearsay...is not evidence...second hand or thrid hand hearsay is even less ...its not even hearsay its less then romour ...its rainbow mytholgy

Between BB’s account, the videos, the online statements about the incident, and the second-hand information I received from these kidz, I’d be surprised at this point to find a “smoking gun”

> then consider the source ....they like and support people we know are violent disruptive and felonious...not very good sources bodhi

These kidz behavior is not something I approve of or condone. But they are Family and I listen to them.

still . the video is interesting...

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 10, 2:17 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> At the beginning of the video you can heard the young sister off camera yelling loudly. At 0:09 you can clearly see a struggle break out in the center of the crowd Now folks are agitated. You can not hear any firecrackers so I must assume the tossing of the child to the ground ‘caused the crowd to become agitated.

your making a very large leap in that assumption...who saw anyone “toss” the child to the ground”...not you ...not bill.....its not on the video....so who...what are their name

> As the camera pans closer you see a very tight circle of mostly older Rainbows pinning down the girl. At 0:38 you can see her legs in the air clearly she is on the ground and several people are pinning here down

and doing so is understandable and acceptable as long as that chikd is not hurt...Ive seen cops do much worse to violent children

> What you are witnessing here is a very serious crime..

not as I see it from what Ive heard fromBBs and from what Ive seen in the video...all I can conclude it that the children commited a crime ...and were restrained from further commission of a crime ...and stopping someone during the commission of a crime from persuing that crime is not acrime ...its a mizvha

> > Im currently involved with a possibe murder investigation....and we have better evidence on the suspect than that ....
> good luck with that investigation.

we’re working on it ...from my ionvestigation its clear that casey never went to taos or santa fe....which lends crdence to the belief that he was probabaly murdered ... but by whom fpr that we need much more then second hand accounts

> Between BB’s account, the videos, the online statements about the incident, and the second-hand information I received from these kidz, I’d be surprised at this point to find a “smoking gun”

bb’s statements mean something ....eye witness statements mean something....second hand information means nothing ...and your reports of second hand statements mean less then nothing...no reflection on you.... but a second hand report of a second hand report is nothing but myth

> > then consider the source ....they like and support people we know are violent disruptive and felonious...not very good sources bodhi
> These kidz behavior is not something I approve of or condone. But they are Family and I listen to them.

when you listen to someone ... you must consider their agenda...their world view...their prejudges’s and the reliablity of the person your listening too....I dont know theses kids ...if they are kids and not adults ...but from what YOU tell me I cant find them very reliable

last spring after the regional I gave a ride to town to a young woman who swore that every single person who lived in spokane was a child molester...she had several other friends with her who agreed ...should I have believed her ...I listened to her go on for 45 minutes ... but I discounted what she said as absurd and I would never have passed on her statement as fact dispite the fact that she had other people with her who made the same claim...sure she might have had a bad expeerience in spokane... but that does mean what she said was true ...only her perspecttive > > still . the video is interesting... yea it is ... but it doesnt support your thesis or the “kidz story and it does support BB’s version of the story

On Aug 10, 10:15 am, “Karin Zirk” <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> > Thanks Bodhi -

My deepest apologies Karin. The same for Carla and Thistle and BB. I gotta get a grip.

> Elder schmelder. Age don’t make one person smarter than an other or wiser or dumber. Age is just age.

I just wish we aged like whiskey

:^)

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 10, 3:33 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My deepest apologies Karin. The same for Carla and Thistle and BB. I gotta get a grip.

we all have our days .....look at tweeker B ...hes been like that for 11 years straight....LOLOL....be happy your not him...LOLOL

On Aug 10, 2:17 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=DKfsPlRAnYk&feature=related

yeah, and the guy in the vid being hte most agro is far from any geybeard, or even ‘elder’, he’s a wingnut, and at this point, i’m wondering, provocatuer perhaps, even if moved by spirit!

i saw this dude, the bro getting kicked at about 1:11 in the vid above, and shown in the 2nd vid later lashing out and being surrounded by others. anyways, anyone know him? would stand up for him?

last last year, NM, he was hanging around front gate (the “welcome home” sign’d one by the start of the one-way) ...... wingnut .... luckily he landed by tolerating folk,.. a few days later he made it down the road to a-camp and was run out screaming about getting a gun and coming back to shoot someone,.. never to be seen again that gathering.... said he lived in NM.

so,.. flash to this year,.. i see hiin these vids,.. COME FUCKING ON....

one guy? one wingnut brother lashing out,.... either genuinely needing help and this all moved by spirit to happen before us all,... or more? it’s *not* about any generational anything,.. any label anything,.. any built up bullshit,..

it’s this one guys response,... and the domino effect it had?

this should be about him,.. anyone know him?

peace,..
quiet,..

On Aug 10, 10:47 am, Lookingheart <lookinghe...@peaceconspiracy.org> wrote:

> You know asshole, I havent posted on this thread nor do I have any comments on the subject other then various people are in the wrong, including those who excuse such behavior. Much like most people at the gatherings, I do not support what was done to the folks who where there to pray nor am I “down” with the child abuse that followed - those who exacted violence on others do not represent the Rainbow

And you do? Who makes you the judge on who is “representing rainbow”? Is your blatant thievery and multiple attempts to take over rainbow what you call “representing”? If it is, count me out.

> Family - kinda like AGR. Yours, Stubbies and Olooney’s violence here on AGR has little to do with the Rainbow Family as well.

Well damn, Steve “LookingHeart” Duncan has thrown me out of the rainbow family! Oh noes!!! What to do?

Wait.. what violence have I ever perpetuated on here? You mean.. like calling someone asshole like you just did above? Your many vitriolic outbursts have been well documented on here. Maybe you need to kick yourself out of rainbow too.

> You are as much to blame for that generation of hate as I am, as is Stubbie and Olooney, as is Karen, as is Bodhi, ect., ect., ect.

You have no idea what generation I belong to, so get off your soapbox Snakeoil Steve.

On Aug 10, 4:13 pm, “ohloo...@hotmail.com” <ohloo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > You know asshole, I havent posted on this thread nor do I have any comments on the subject other then various people are in the wrong, including those who excuse such behavior. Much like most people at the gatherings, I do not support what was done to the folks who where there to pray nor am I “down” with the child abuse that followed - those who exacted violence on others do not represent the Rainbow

no your not down with child abuse but you continualy defend tweekerb who has been accused of child abuse... and as we all knows has no problem commiting tresspass==>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

> And you do? Who makes you the judge on who is “representing rainbow”? Is your blatant thievery and multiple attempts to take over rainbow what you call “representing”? If it is, count me out.

lets not even talk about what he did to gain access to chazs web sites and steal them from him...or the divison he intentionally created in the MI family...

> > Family - kinda like AGR. Yours, Stubbies and Olooney’s violence here on AGR has little to do with the Rainbow Family as well.

thank you ...for comparing me to ohlooney...its a complement...as for viloence ....what proof do you have that either he or I gave commited violence ....we do have how ever a video or your actions .....wanna see ...no romour ...no hear say ...but an explicit video...here watch
===>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

> Well damn, Steve “LookingHeart” Duncan has thrown me out of the rainbow family! Oh noes!!! What to do?

since he doesnt go to rainbow gatherings it doesnt mean much ....niether does anything else he says

> > You are as much to blame for that generation of hate as I am, as is Stubbie and Olooney, as is Karen, as is Bodhi, ect., ect., ect.
> You have no idea what generation I belong to, so get off your soapbox Snakeoil Steve.

yeah but its a honour to be compared favorably to karen and yourself

and it sucks to be this guy===>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

On Aug 10, 7:07 pm, hj st <hjayst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> yeah, and the guy in the vid being hte most agro is far from any geybeard, or even ‘elder’, he’s a wingnut, and at this point, i’m wondering, provocatuer perhaps, even if moved by spirit!

WAS that {{{ Sara Sally Sunshine }}} ... I saw WALKing in that vid ????

“whistler” <azwhi...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:036aa26b-43f3-40a1-a3ef-f236f9b211b8@e15g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...

> WAS that {{{ Sara Sally Sunshine }}} ... I saw WALKing in that vid ????

No. I talked to the woman in the vid.

On Aug 10, 5:07 pm, hj st <hjayst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> yeah, and the guy in the vid being hte most agro is far from any geybeard, or even ‘elder’, he’s a wingnut, and at this point, i’m wondering, provocatuer perhaps, even if moved by spirit!
> i saw this dude, the bro getting kicked at about 1:11 in the vid above, and shown in the 2nd vid later lashing out and being surrounded by others. anyways, anyone know him? would stand up for him?

I’m not sure who you’re talking about in the video Give a correct time.

I’ve been involved in a lot of crazy shanta sena movies over the years and I was glad to see Vermin and alot of other good brothers there trying to calm the situation. What I have a King Bitch about is according to Butterfly Bill’s account the fracas started when a group of Hi-Hos decided to circle a group of young girls and OMMM them for playing music and talking loudly during the Silence. I’ve been involved in many shanta sena movies over the years. Most were insane drug freak-outs and domestic violence spats - not little girls pissing off hippies on their High Holy Day.

So what did they REALLY do wrong?? According to BB’s account it was noisy musical instruments and loud voices that ‘cause the crowd of Hi- Hos to go berserk

> > “Then at maybe 10 o’clock I heard the sounds of a tambourine and some people telling others to be quiet .... then I heard a girl’s voice saying, “You’re all a bunch of Nazis”. I looked over and saw three girls walking around onto the meadow, all talking loudly. ... One of them had blond hair in long dreadlocks .... She was walking around with a video camera taking pictures of all the people who approached them. . Several people who were sitting in the meadow got up and formed a circle around them and tried to shush them, but they responded with remarks like, “You’re a bunch of Nazi punks” and “You’re all a bunch of child molesters.” Other people started protesting the attempts to silence them, saying, “Let the children speak”. Finally there was a complete circle around them and someone started an Om. One of the kids said to the one with the dreadlocks, “You’re being Omed over”, and she responded by saying, “This is getting too weird for me”, and she walked out of the circle, followed by all the rest.”

At this point in the narrative I don’t see any reason why these girls needed to be surrounded and “shushed”

Later on, Butterfly Bill recounts a similar incident -

> > “I went back into the meadow, and almost everybody was still standing and holding hands, and the Om continued on faintly some more until silence returned - but most of the people were still standing. Then I saw a man beckoning everybody to sit down, and most did. Then he broke the silence with his loud voice announcing how there would be a world crisis in 2012, the last year in the Mayan calendar, and our Hopi brothers have left us a prophecy that we should all gather in “the four corners area”, because they knew “how to show us how to survive”. Another woman got up and started to add some more words to his. When people stated saying, “Respect the Silence”, she repeatedly answered with, “I will not be silenced!” Small circles of people formed around her and the man, and a saw people trying to persuade them quietly. But there were some more outbursts from them, and now everybody was saying Om, and this time it got louder as people tried to use the Om to drown out their voices. The two people finally quieted down, but the Om, started perhaps prematurely, continued until I saw the children’s parade from Kid Village start to walk between out rings. They had entered in silence so complete that I was surprised when I first saw them. The Om continued, loud enough to discourage a few people who tried to start playing drums and a fiddle until it finally gave way to the cheer with raised arms - maybe an hour or a half before the sun was at the meridian.”

Are you beginning to get the picture here???? The morning of Silence on the 4th is beginning to resemble a cult practice whereas anyone who violates the dictates of the ritual by speaking out loud is surrounded in a circle by devotees and OMMMM-ed.

freaky and scary. The OM was never intended to be used as a crowd control method - WHAT THE FUCK ??????? AND Since when is it MANDATORY to be quiet on the 4th??

And folks have been breaking the silence on the 4th for as long as I have been going to Rainbow. Several years ago I had a friend persuade me to join her in the High Holy Inner Circle around the Peace Pole. That Silence was broken when Plunker and his followers entered the Circle and Plunker spoke for about five minutes. I was the one that hollared out. “RESPECT THE SILENCE” but Plunker continued on.

I’ve seen High Holies raise their arms during the OM forcing many people to have to hold their arm up in the air for 10 minutes. I’ve seen High Holies break the Silence before the children enter the circle.

But at no time did I ever feel it was appropriate to circle someone against their will and OMMM them for not respecting the Silence.

It’s High Holy nonsense just like the Peace Pole and the Inner Circle.

It’s Fascism pure and simple.

I didn’t come to Rainbow for this nonsense and alot of so-called “Elders” need to seriously check rheir behavior.

YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!

namaste;
bodhi

Are you working as an agent provocateur for the plutocracy?.

I think we’d get a lot further and be able to keep this thread going if we carefully concentrate only on analyzing third hand accounts. Thank god we can keep relying on speculations and rumors, so this can go on without any chances of resolving the issues.

Or as one put it, some people put out fires, some go around lighting them.

whistler wrote:

> WAS that {{{ Sara Sally Sunshine }}} ... I saw WALKing in that vid ????

Sure looked like her, didn’t it? However, ‘twas not ...

On Aug 10, 12:25 pm, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > admit we’re not ready to assume the role of “wisdom teacher” with all the honor and accolades that title bestows.
> The only person I know who has tried to assume the role of “wisdom teacher” with all the honor and accolades that title bestows is some con man who calls himself bodhi.

LOL! That’s Rich. I couldn’t get a lawn chair around the Hi-Holy campfire even if I paid for it. I am absolute despised by the Hi-Hos in the Fam and the feeling is mutual. I couldn’t even warm a lawn chair with my ass while my “Elder” takes a piss.

I once introduced myself to someone at the gathering and she said to me, “You ought to change your name so you don’t get mistaken for that asshole on AGR who goes by the same name”

LOL!!!!!

I’m sorry. I am a flawed human being. I have problems with hair on them. I can be charming at times and at other times I can be an real asshole. On my best days I’m both and neither.

Unlike some in the Rainbow Family, yes, my shit stinks.

I didn’t come to Rainbow to get the hem of my robe dirty. I came to Rainbow to be healed.

There has been many brothers and sisters in the Rainbow Family whom over the years has helped me on my spiritual path and I am grateful.

There has been many brothers and sisters I have helped on their spiritual path over the years as well and I am humbled.

I am a teacher and I am a student.

I’m a joker, a smoker, and a midnight toker.

> In Theravada Buddhism

(yawn) sorry my other vehicle is Mahayana. In my paticular sect bodhisattvas are neither Lay nor Monk.

chew on that one for awhile, pal.

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 11, 1:45 am, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> LOL! That’s Rich. I couldn’t get a lawn chair around the Hi-Holy campfire even if I paid for it. I am absolute despised by the Hi-Hos in the Fam and the feeling is mutual. I couldn’t even warm a lawn chair with my ass while my “Elder” takes a piss.

I didn’t say you succeeded, I only said you tried.

> I once introduced myself to someone at the gathering and she said to me, “You ought to change your name so you don’t get mistaken for that asshole on AGR who goes by the same name”

Wise words from a complete stranger. You ought to consider them.

On Aug 10, 10:45 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (yawn) sorry my other vehicle is Mahayana. In my paticular sect bodhisattvas are neither Lay nor Monk.

obviously it has no meaning to you...it’s unfortunate and saddens me knowing it is so widely respected by the vast majority while watching you lay waste to the honored name.

bodhi <psychedel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What I have a King Bitch about is according to Butterfly Bill’s account the fracas started when a group of Hi-Hos decided to circle a group of young girls and OMMM them for playing music and talking loudly during the Silence. I’ve been involved in many shanta sena movies over the years. Most were insane drug freak-outs and domestic violence spats - not little girls pissing off hippies on their High Holy Day.
> So what did they REALLY do wrong?? According to BB’s account it was noisy musical instruments and loud voices that ‘cause the crowd of Hi- Hos to go berserk

You are now quoting my words like they were some kind of holy scripture. Maybe I should be flattered that you think my writings have the truth that is attributed to scripture, but I have occasionally got details wrong. Karin Zirk caught one in my New Mexico account about the permit signer. And I never described the people involved as “Hi-hos” and I hardly think that a circle starting up an Om is “going berserk”, so you are putting your own slant on what I said and distorting it.

> > Finally there was a complete circle around them and someone started an Om. One of the kids said to the one with the dreadlocks, “You’re being Omed over”, and she responded by saying, “This is getting too weird for me”, and she walked out of the circle, followed by all the rest.”
> At this point in the narrative I don’t see any reason why these girls needed to be surrounded and “shushed”

Because they were disturbing the ceremony and interfering with the spiritual practice of all the other people in the meadow.

> Are you beginning to get the picture here???? The morning of Silence on the 4th is beginning to resemble a cult practice whereas anyone who violates the dictates of the ritual by speaking out loud is surrounded in a circle by devotees and OMMMM-ed.
> freaky and scary. The OM was never intended to be used as a crowd control method - WHAT THE FUCK ??????? AND Since when is it MANDATORY to be quiet on the 4th??

Every other day in the gathering drums can play constantly and people can whoop and holler and blow horns and do anything they want. On this one morning the people who get spiritual benefit from the silence ask the rest of the camp to allow them this. Are you saying that you can’t allow them even this? That only your desires for noise will be honored for the whole length of the gathering? That you don’t care about the desires of anyone but yourself?

Surrounding the agro energy and drowning it out with an Om is one of the most basic Shanti Sena maneuvers. And it works, as it did the first time the kids were out in the meadow and when the 2012 people wouldn’t stop talking.

> I didn’t come to Rainbow for this nonsense and alot of so-called “Elders” need to seriously check rheir behavior.

If you want, you can simply leave the gathering on the morning of the 4th and be there for the afternoon and all the other days.

- BB

On Aug 11, 11:53 am, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com>

> You are now quoting my words like they were some kind of holy scripture. Maybe I should be flattered that you think my writings have the truth that is attributed to scripture, but I have occasionally got details wrong. Karin Zirk caught one in my New Mexico account about the permit signer. And I never described the people involved as “Hi-hos” and I hardly think that a circle starting up an Om is “going berserk”, so you are putting your own slant on what I said and distorting it.

scripture no...but you are know to be reliable...sure everyone gets something wrong occationally.... but you have a reputation for being honest ...that you will speak what you believe to be the truth without spin without exageration...without editing tofit a preconcieved agenda ...I read your book bill...and yeah sure there were a couple small details I would disagree with you on...but whats important was that you got the basic idea correct ...minors detail differences can be explain as a diffrence in perspective not a lack of truth or accuracy...thats why your accounts are valued ...consider it trust in the charactor of the speaker...an understanding by the listenor that you intend to tell the truth......when all is said and done ...a man should be judge on his honesty and his decency....and thats why your words are respected

On Aug 9, 7:40 pm, Pat Easterling <easterling_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> But then again, once I was walking up to the visitor center in Glacier Nat. Park and they’d fenced off around the trail to protect the alpine plants, all blooming pretty and looking so pristine, and this ten year old jerk in front of me, while glaring at his mother, threw his coke can into the little flowers. Without even thinking I (softly) did a snap roundhouse kick to his ass.

Lucky for you it wasn’t me and one of my kids, or you wouldn’t have lived to smirk about it.

On Aug 11, 1:53 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> You are now quoting my words like they were some kind of holy scripture. Maybe I should be flattered that you think my writings have the truth that is attributed to scripture,

No, but your condoning of violence against a minor child has been noted.

> so you are putting your own slant on what I said and distorting it.

No need to put a slant on anything you wrote as you made it perfectly clear that you condone the actions of the adults that assaulted an minor child.

> Because they were disturbing the ceremony and interfering with the spiritual practice of all the other people in the meadow.

Oooohhhh, they were disturbing the a ceremony.... sounds kinda cultish to me.... someone makes noise so you attack them.... sounds real spiritual to me.

> > WHAT THE FUCK ??????? AND Since when is it MANDATORY to be quiet on the 4th??

I’m with Bodhi on this one.... supposedly there are no rules at gatherings.... at least that was what I was always told from the first one I attended in 1978 thru to the last one in 2003.

Since when is it mandatory for everyone to be quiet on the 4th ?? I for one have never done it.... and never will.... why should everyone in attendance bow to the dictates of your cult ceremony ??

Not everyone is there for the same reason.

> Every other day in the gathering drums can play constantly and people can whoop and holler and blow horns and do anything they want.

Except on the 4th when you have your cult ceremony.

> On this one morning the people who get spiritual benefit from the silence ask the rest of the camp to allow them this.

Then it is not all inclusive.... by putting such mandates on gathering you then make it exclusive.

> Are you saying that you can’t allow them even this?

Welcome to this country.... it’s called freedom.... don’t like it ?? I am sure that there are several countries to the south that would love to have you as a resident.

> That only your desires for noise will be honored for the whole length of the gathering?

To each their own.... if you want silence why not leave ??

> That you don’t care about the desires of anyone but yourself?

Sure, when it comes to what I desire and the dictates of a cult the cult loses every time.

> Surrounding the agro energy and drowning it out with an Om is one of the most basic Shanti Sena maneuvers.

Then pray tell how did a minor child end up being pinned to the ground by adults ?? is that also a basic maneuver ??

> And it works, as it did the first time the kids were out in the meadow and when the 2012 people wouldn’t stop talking.

Talk about a nazi cult... Ach ja mein Kommandeur, werden wir auf Übeltäter Schweigen und Tilgung der Ungläubigen

> If you want, you can simply leave the gathering on the morning of the 4th and be there for the afternoon and all the other days.

And the same can be said to you.

On Aug 11, 3:24 pm, Tha Billdozer <thabilldo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > You are now quoting my words like they were some kind of holy scripture. Maybe I should be flattered that you think my writings have the truth that is attributed to scripture,
> No, but your condoning of violence against a minor child has been noted.

no hes not ...and he woldnt condone your assualting a 13 year old girl calling her a whore and a slut..someone should have t aught you that lesson when you did it

> > so you are putting your own slant on what I said and distorting it.
> No need to put a slant on anything you wrote as you made it perfectly clear that you condone the actions of the adults that assaulted an minor child.

talk about distorting... your a master at distorting the truth...carpented/nail...you get my drift

> > Because they were disturbing the ceremony and interfering with the spiritual practice of all the other people in the meadow.
> Oooohhhh, they were disturbing the a ceremony.... sounds kinda cultish to me.... someone makes noise so you attack them.... sounds real spiritual to me.

obviously anyone who doesnt understand the concept of respct wouldnt get it .....and you respect nothing

> > > WHAT THE FUCK ??????? AND Since when is it MANDATORY to be quiet on the 4th??
> I’m with Bodhi on this one.... supposedly there are no rules at gatherings.... at least that was what I was always told from the first one I attended in 1978 thru to the last one in 2003.

thats right ...when you didnt get our way in spring council you got all butt hurt...whined and cried and even threatened to shoot plunker ...then swore you would never attend a gathering again....just like you tweeka bill.. you dont get your way so you attack anyone who stands up to you ....like threatening to kill plunker ...threatening to kill rein milliways ...calling cops on me ...assualting a 13 years old girl... assualting and threatening a disabled woman in her own home .... man you sure are real a hero arent ya tweekabill, remember ====>>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

> Since when is it mandatory for everyone to be quiet on the 4th ?? I for one have never done it.... and never will.... why should everyone in attendance bow to the dictates of your cult ceremony ??

you dont even know the meaning of the word cult yet you throw it around like candy at a parade

> Not everyone is there for the same reason.

but any decent person ( which excludes guys who abuse teenage girls) understands the concept of respect

> > Every other day in the gathering drums can play constantly and> people can whoop and holler and blow horns and do anything they want.
> Except on the 4th when you have your cult ceremony.

showing is ignorence once again

> > On this one morning the people who get spiritual benefit from the silence ask the rest of the camp to allow them this.
> Then it is not all inclusive.... by putting such mandates on gathering you then make it exclusive.
> > Are you saying that you can’t allow them even this?
> Welcome to this country.... it’s called freedom.... don’t like it ?? I am sure that there are several countries to the south that would love to have you as a resident.

your not free to disrupt other people ya jack ass remember=====>>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

> > That only your desires for noise will be honored for the whole length of the gathering?
> To each their own.... if you want silence why not leave ??

silencee has been the tradition for 35 plus years ...if you dont like it you can leave .... oh thats right you dont go to gathering...so its none of your business...if you didnt like swan you could have left too ...but you didnt===>>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

> > That you don’t care about the desires of anyone but yourself?
> Sure, when it comes to what I desire and the dictates of a cult the cult loses every time.

again tweekabill shows gis ignorence..

> > Surrounding the agro energy and drowning it out with an Om is one of the most basic Shanti Sena maneuvers.
> Then pray tell how did a minor child end up being pinned to the ground by adults ?? is that also a basic maneuver ??

obvious you didnt take time to read karins report...or are you going to call karin a slut and a whore too for not agreeing with you as well....

> > And it works, as it did the first time the kids were out in the meadow and when the 2012 people wouldn’t stop talking.
> Talk about a nazi cult... Ach ja mein Kommandeur, werden wir auf Übeltäter Schweigen und Tilgung der Ungläubigen
> > If you want, you can simply leave the gathering on the morning of the 4th and be there for the afternoon and all the other days.
> And the same can be said to you.

I think this says it all about you ChildabusaBill====>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5979187590076953169&ei=ypKVSs_wCZr8qAPJpYnmCw&q=bill+gone+wild#

Every where Woody goes there is controversy but everywhere Bill goes there is broad agreement that he is a troublemaker and a creep. I wish he would go to a councling. He is deluded and does not know the difference between true and false.

Bill says that women he knows have a good opinion of him. I have never met Bill. My female friend says that the day she met Bill she was 13.

He followed her all day until dark calling her a slut and a whore. When she screemed in his face “I’m 13 years old leave me alone!” he called her a liar and accused her of being older and dressing like a harlet. I asked her if she thought Bill was coming on sexually to her and she insisted that he was not. Bill just considered it his right and his duty to criticise women who were dressed indecently according to his standards. Many years later he posted hateful filthy smut on the internet about her mother for no reason on this forum. When my friend read his lies she broke down and cried. I witnessed this personally.

Bill says he has moved on yet he makes no apology and all but says he would do this again given the opportunity

Bill will accuse me of hiding behind a keyboard. And so I am. I don’t need another stalker in my life calling my relatives out.

Bill has no right to criticise women he doesn’t even know

Bill had no right to verbally abuse swan in her own house

Bill has every right to peddle his insults on this unmoderated forum and i am certain he will

On Aug 11, 4:08 pm, Connie <tucson.con...@cox.net> wrote:

> Lucky for you it wasn’t me and one of my kids, or you wouldn’t have lived to smirk about it.

Oh, I’m an old black belt and martial art instructor and know how to “tap.” And seriously, if your ten year old boy was giving you shit and purposefully threw a coke can into the fenced off alpine flowers you’d be mad? And I never smirked, I realized that I could have gotten busted for it, and was thankful that she thanked me and told her brat that he deserved it. And if you read the whole post you should realize I was giving another side, after coming on on the other side...

On Aug 11, 12:53 pm, Butterfly Bill <farfallaONAYAMSPAYb...@isp.com> wrote:

> You are now quoting my words like they were some kind of holy scripture.

Do you want a great plug for your book?

“Butterfly Bill’s recent installment in the continual saga of the Rainbow Family, “The Stairway To Heaven Gathering” is coming out soon in paperback. BB’s recollections of his time at the 2010 Annual Rainbow Family will bring forth a flood of beautiful memories for those who attended this summer and will be obsessively poured over by candlelight - deep in the night as it were like it was Holy Writ - for those that didn’t.

6 stars out of 5.
- Bodhi

> Maybe I should be flattered that you think my writings have the truth that is attributed to scripture, but I have> occasionally got details wrong.

History is written by the Victors - and those with fairly good memories.

> Karin Zirk caught one in my New Mexico account about the permit signer. And I never described the people involved as “Hi-hos” and I hardly think that a circle starting up an Om is “going berserk”, so you are putting your own slant on what I said and distorting it.

No, I’m paraphrasing it to fit my own agenda, thank you.

> > At this point in the narrative I don’t see any reason why these girls needed to be surrounded and “shushed”
> Because they were disturbing the ceremony and interfering with the spiritual practice of all the other people in the meadow.

Bah, I guess you don’t remember Gatherings when there was plenty of really good Family Fluff going around. Folks were babbling God all thru the ceremony and for weeks sometimes months afterwords. I think Gandhi, Dr Martin Luther King, and Mother Theresa would advise to ignore it

Yeah, that’s right.... either ignore it, join in, or walk away. No- one is hurting no-one so leave it alone

That’s the peaceful way. Forming a mob to circle someone and OMMMMMM over their Freedom of Speech on our Nation’ Holiday in a National Forest open to the public is too much of a death cult trip for me.

> Every other day in the gathering drums can play constantly and people can whoop and holler and blow horns and do anything they want. On this one morning the people who get spiritual benefit from the silence ask the rest of the camp to allow them this.

Yep, and if they allow you a response of “Bugger Off” you have to honor and respect their wishes as well. This is not a paid event. There are NO FUCKING RULES. If someone wants to make a total ass out of themselves on the 4th by making loud noises my spiritual, political,and intellectual beliefs fully support their right to do so.

To deny them that right is to deny me my Rights and I’ll be goddamn if a bunch of Hi-Ho fascist police are going to take away my Rights. What you do to my little wingnut brother and sister you do also to ME, you fascist.

> Are you saying that you can’t allow them even this?

It’s not up to me and it’s not up to you. It’s not up to ANYONE to abridge Freedom of Speech on a day that so many millions have fought and died to preserve. If you have a complaint take it to God and bitch.

> That only your desires for noise will be honored for the whole length of the gathering? That you don’t care about the desires of anyone but yourself?

As you know BB I have respected and honored the Silence for almost 15 years now. I don’t go over to Kiddie Village where all our “Elders” are chatting away like magpies. I carry a notepad and pencil and I wander where it’s quiet. I love the amazing energy the Silence provides as so many beautiful souls commune together in the early morning light. I always arrive as late as possible to Main Meadow because I’m a Rainbow Veteran and know better than to think the Meadow is the place to go for silence. It’s where everybody wanders around talking or not and you cannot control how everyone behaves. Let me amend that - you should not control how everyone behaves.

I honor and respect the Silence but I honor and respect more my brothers’ and sisters’ Right to Freedom of Speech.

> Surrounding the agro energy and drowning it out with an Om is one of the most basic Shanti Sena maneuvers.

Drowning out my Freedom of Speech is more like it. I have the God given RIGHT to yell “Theater” in a Fire House and “War” at a Peace Gathering. BTW the Om is a very scared syllable in Hinduism and ...... mmmmmmmm .... I don’t think it was intended as a crowd control tactic to drown out somebody’s right of expression. You Shanta Sena thugs should be ashamed of appropriating the sacred vowel for your Nazi regime.

Tee-Shirt for next gathering - OM THIS MUTHERFUCKERS!!!!!

> And it works, as it did the first time the kids were out in the meadow

It didn’t work AT ALL! It just pissed the kids off enough to go back and gather re-enforcements. The kids gathered up firecrackers because they couldn’t play their musical instruments. The Hi-Hos escalated the situation and made it worse. What did you expect you were accomplishing surrounding a group of children and OMMM-ing them?? Did you expect to cowl them into submission? Shanta Sena is suppose to resolve a situation not escalated it !!!! I don’t see how resolving a situation involves agitating the victim and creating a crowd control situation by making all kinds of rukus. Had everyone ignored the little girls they would’ve gotten bored and went back to camp.

> and when the 2012 people wouldn’t stop talking.

You should’ve tackled them, duct-taped ‘em and dragged ‘em around the Circle as an example of Rainbow heresy

> > I didn’t come to Rainbow for this nonsense and alot of so-called “Elders” need to seriously check rheir behavior.
> If you want, you can simply leave the gathering on the morning of the 4th and be there for the afternoon and all the other days.

“America - Love it or Leave It”

I heard Insects were typically fascist.

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 11, 7:20 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, that’s right.... either ignore it, join in, or walk away. No- one is hurting no-one so leave it alone
> That’s the peaceful way. Forming a mob to circle someone and OMMMMMM over their Freedom of Speech on our Nation’ Holiday in a National Forest open to the public is too much of a death cult trip for me.

it seems rather odd to me that you’d even be posting about this subject when you had a rather violent episode yourself a few years ago about tossing a lady down to the floor...or was that for her own protection? hey wait...the same could be said about this altercation at the gathering!

On Aug 11, 10:03 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You should’ve tackled them, duct-taped ‘em and dragged ‘em around the Circle as an example of Rainbow heresy

strange words coming from one who thinks it’s ok to hold and toss a lady onto a bed, so hard she had bruised ribs, as the bod admits...the lady says she was tossed onto a tile floor and while her ribs were bruised, she also had a couple broken ones.

so what makes one more alright with you than the other?

On Aug 11, 10:18 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> To deny them that right is to deny me my Rights and I’ll be goddamn if a bunch of Hi-Ho fascist police are going to take away my Rights. What you do to my little wingnut brother and sister you do also to ME, you fascist.

bodhi you keep refeing to hi ho’s //// but who....its only right to say who if there were “hi ho’s”...and if you dont know ...say so....we all knowwho it is that are called hi hos ... yhou know them ...I know them...the video doesnt show them ...who was it .....it a fair question that deserves a honest answer

On Aug 11, 1:29 am, Carla <ca...@efn.org> wrote:

> Sure looked like her, didn’t it? However, ‘twas not ...

I was fooled, I was ecstatic for her. Both that she had got to gath and that she was walking again. Hope she’s well and happy. Wonder how Ram Das is doing.

On Aug 12, 1:21 am, gary <rainbowcrystalkitche...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> bodhi you keep refeing to hi ho’s //// but who....its only right to say who if there were “hi ho’s”...and if you dont know ...say so....we all knowwho it is that are called hi hos ... yhou know them ...I know them...the video doesnt show them ...who was it

I thought he must be referring to Vermin. I’m pretty sure I saw him in there.

On Aug 12, 1:18 am, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It’s not up to me and it’s not up to you. It’s not up to ANYONE to abridge Freedom of Speech on a day that so many millions have fought and died to preserve. If you have a complaint take it to God and bitch.

So if a few teenagers decide jews are hypocrites and they feel like going into a synagogue for the purpose of disrupting the service and provoking a reaction there’s nothing to be done and the other people there have no right to have their service in peace. And when I went to chant with Gurumayi Chidvilasananda for 4 days if some teenagers decided to play trombones and throw firecrackers their right to disrupt the chanting takes precedence. And at the sundances I’ve been to, if a few teenagers decided to come into the sundance area and shout and play music and throw firecrackers that’s just their right.

Its certainly your right to hold that opinion but I disagree. In everyone of those situations those disrupting the services would have been removed. I’ve seen it happen at sundances. People often try to disrupt them. Sometimes out of anti indian bigotry, sometimes silly whites will disrupt them out of a desire to be involved but lacking the knowledge to be respectful of the ceremony.

Believe what you want but as far as I’m concerned: Freedom of speech doesn’t give anyone the right to go into a synagogue and shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers during their services. It doesn’t give anyone the right to go into a hindu temple and shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers during their ceremony. It doesn’t give anyone the right to go into a sundance circle and shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers. And it doesn’t give anyone the right to shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers during the silence in main circle on the fourth at a rainbow gathering.

“bodhi” <psychedel...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:d1da007a-11e3-40ce-a8e1-b3556957c789@g21g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

> It didn’t work AT ALL! It just pissed the kids off enough to go back and gather re-enforcements. The kids gathered up firecrackers because they couldn’t play their musical instruments. The Hi-Hos escalated the situation and made it worse.

I never saw the kids coming into the meadow with instruments.

On Aug 12, 4:21 am, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> So if a few teenagers decide jews are hypocrites and they feel like going into a synagogue for the purpose of disrupting the service and provoking a reaction there’s nothing to be done and the other people there have no right to have their service in peace.

A snagogue is private property. Thr Rabbi could call the police or just toss their asses out. The National Forest is owned by the people of the United States, not the Rainbow Family. The 4th of July is an American holiday celebrating, among other Rights, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly. People have fought and died to protect those Freedoms.

> And when I went to chant with Gurumayi Chidvilasananda for 4 days if some teenagers decided to play trombones and throw firecrackers their right to disrupt the chanting takes precedence.

If Gurumayi Chidvilasananda performed on private property he could call the police or just toss their asses out. The National Forest is owned by the people of the United States, not the Rainbow Family. The 4th of July is an American holiday celebrating, among other Rights, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly. People have fought and died to protect those Freedoms

> And at the sundances I’ve been to, if a few teenagers decided to come into the sundance area and shout and play music and throw firecrackers that’s just their right.

If the Native Americans performed on private property they could call the police or just toss their asses out. The National Forest is owned by the people of the United States, not the Rainbow Family. The 4th of July is an American holiday celebrating, among other Rights, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly. People have fought and died to protect those Freedoms

> Its certainly your right to hold that opinion but I disagree.

The same Freedoms that allowed me to demostrate against the Iraq War on March 22 2003 are the same Freedoms that allows children to play their musical instruments in a National Forest on the 4th of July

There are no rule stating you MUST remain silent during the Silence on the 4th. You are advocating some religious mob rule of the type you see in Iran,

> In everyone of those situations those disrupting the services would have been removed. I’ve seen it happen at sundances. People often try to disrupt them. Sometimes out of anti indian bigotry, sometimes silly whites will disrupt them out of a desire to be involved but lacking the knowledge to be respectful of the ceremony.

Is the Sundance held on Public Land?

> Believe what you want but as far as I’m concerned: Freedom of speech doesn’t give anyone the right to go into a synagogue and shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers during their services. It doesn’t give anyone the right to go into a hindu temple and shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers during their ceremony. It doesn’t give anyone the right to go into a sundance circle and shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers.

Yada, yada, yada. You are talking about private groups holding ceremonies on private property that invites the public to attend.

> And it doesn’t give anyone the right to shout, play musical instruments and throw firecrackers during the silence in main circle on the fourth at a rainbow gathering

The Rainbow Family is a non-organization with no leaders or rules. They hold their ceremonies on Public Land. Folk who organize the Annual request that everyone respects their ceremonies but they cannot enforce a law that dosen’t exist.

As far as I know the Forest Service have no laws prohibing the playing of a trombone on the morning of the 4th of July anywhere in the National Forest. They do have a law about discharging fireworks in the National Forest and when those kids violated the law they should have been dealt with by the thousands of Forest Service L.E.O.s roaming the Gathering. They should have been ticketed and their fireworks conficated. If they resisted arrest the Forest Service is legally allowed to detain them and place them in jail.

You are advocating mob rule. You are advocating turning Rainbow into a religous theocracy run by mobs of self-appointed High Holies.

you suck.

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 12, 9:44 am, “Karin Zirk” <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I never saw the kids coming into the meadow with instruments.

The incident you witnessed Karin was when the kids returned to the meadow for the second time after being harrassed by a mob of high holies ommm-ing them for playing their instruments and talking loudly. While I don’t approve of anyone talking or making noise during the Silence in the meadow, neither do I approve of the Peace Pole and the Inner Circle of High Holies that gathered there. While I may disapprove of these actions I have absolutely no right to impose my will upon them.

Over the years the Rainbow Family wisely kept all this authoritarian high holy nonesense confined to Council and Main Dinner Circle. Then the High Holies began harranging folks while they waited in kitchen lines. The worse spot for this high holy spiritual panhandling is Kid’s Village. Sometimes it gets interesting when two high holies try to outshout each other, or when someone in line calls them on their bullshit.

It’s mostly harmless and fun. Dinner Circle is Dinner Theater. It’s a public spectacle of competing High Holies trying to outshout each other with the same essential message COVER YOUR SHIT

But things go south when it’s taken seriously as it did on the 4th.

The video of the Shanta Sena action I saw shows a wide circle of Family trying to difuse an ugly situation. A couple was calming down a younger brother. Vermin and others were expertly trying to maintain the crowd away from the center of the controversy. It was, what I saw, a very good defensive shanta sena movie. But whoever tried to snatched the girl’s camera away from her was in the wrong plain and simple. There was absolutely no reason to throw a girl to the ground because she was lighting firecrakers on the 4th. You do not place your hands on a child for any reason. Unless the child is holding a 44. Magum to your head you do not touch a child unless you or the child is in danger.

tossing fireworks is annoying. It’s what kids do - especially kids pissed off at adults for trying to “shush” them at a public event.

Here’s BB’s account of the children’s first visit to the meadow. As you can see it began with musical instruments and escalated to smoke bombs and firecrackers. Your accounts covers their second visit

> > “Then at maybe 10 o’clock I heard the sounds of a tambourine and some people telling others to be quiet, then I heard a girl’s voice saying, “You’re all a bunch of Nazis”. I looked over and saw three girls walking around onto the meadow, all talking loudly.
> > Several people who were sitting in the meadow got up and formed a circle around them and tried to shush them, but they responded with remarks like, “You’re a bunch of Nazi punks” and “You’re all a bunch of child molesters.” Other people started protesting the attempts to silence them, saying, “Let the children speak”.
> > Finally there was a complete circle around them and someone started an Om. One of the kids said to the one with the dreadlocks, “You’re being Omed over”, and she responded by saying, “This is getting too weird for me”, and she walked out of the circle, followed by all the rest.”
> > A little while later I heard some rumbling coming from the direction of Kid Village, and I heard their voices again, saying “Nazis” several times. I also started hearing what sounded like one of those plastic parade horns.
> > Then they came back to the main meadow a second time, and I found out that a fourth child had gotten hold of a trombone and was making blasts on it. “

Had folks been more tolerant of other people’s rights the girls would’ve wandered the meadow annoying some and outraging others but would’ve quickly become bored and headed by to camp.

I always try to respond to the cries of “Shanta Sena” whenever I’m at the gathering. Most of the time they’re false alarms - domestic disputes and drugged-out wingnuts but occasionally they merit attention. In Oregon there was a Shanta Sena alert for a vampire. Several sisters reported being bitten on the neck by some kid. I don’t mind roaming the woods in the dead of night looking for a vampire.

But I refuse to enforce some High Holy Edict against being noisy on the 4th.

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 12, 12:27 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If the Native Americans performed on private property they could call the police or just toss their asses out. The National Forest is owned by the people of the United States, not the Rainbow Family.

I’ve been to a sundance held in a National Forest near Ashland, Oregon. I’ve been there twice, its been held there for many more years than two. So you believe they have no right to hold their ceremony on public land. If a couple of teenagers feel like running around on their sundance grounds shouting, playing musical instruments, and throwing firecrackers its just tough luck for the Indians. I know of Natives that use public land for sweat lodges. Since its public land anyone can go and disrupt their ceremony. Its a freedom people have fought and died for. Christians and other religious groups often use city parks and other public land for ceremonies. You believe that no religious group, be they native americans, christians, hindu, muslim, etc. has a right to hold a ceremony on public land. If Native Americans, christians, jews, or muslims want to do any ceremony they must do it on private land.

You have your right to hold that opinion but I disagree.

On Aug 12, 1:31 pm, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I’ve been to a sundance held in a National Forest near Ashland, Oregon. I’ve been there twice, its been held there for many more years than two. So you believe they have no right to hold their ceremony on public land.

Don’t twist my words. I never said they can’t hold their ceremony on public land.

> If a couple of teenagers feel like running around on their sundance grounds shouting, playing musical instruments, and throwing firecrackers its just tough luck for the Indians.

Yep, really sucks eh?

> I know of Natives that use public land for sweat lodges. Since its public land anyone can go and disrupt their ceremony.

Yep, really sucks eh?

> Its a freedom people have fought and died for.

You betcha!!!!!! Even proto-fascist like you should understand the difference between liberty and license.

> Christians and other religious groups often use city parks and other public land for ceremonies. You believe that no religious group, be they native americans, christians, hindu, muslim, etc. has a right to hold a ceremony on public land.

I REPEAT don’t twist my words. I NEVER said they didn’t have the Right. Of course they have every right to gather on public land.

> If Native Americans, christians, jews, or muslims want to do any ceremony they must do it on private land.

Hell, they can do their ceremony anywhere they freakin’ want to except on my private property!! If you chose to hold a ceremony in public on public land then you cannot impose who attends. At every peace demonstration I ever attended we’ve had counter-demonstrators. They have every right to be there.

Man, if you’re having problems with Freedom of Expression why don’t you move to Iran and create a Rainbow theocracy.

just don’t do it here.

namaste;
bodhi

On Aug 12, 3:56 pm, bodhi <psychedelictour...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > If a couple of teenagers feel like running around on their sundance grounds shouting, playing musical instruments, and throwing firecrackers its just tough luck for the Indians.
> Yep, really sucks eh?

If your opinion was law it might, but since its just your opinion it doesn’t suck at all. If a couple of teenagers tried to disrupt a sundance they’d simply be arrested for disturbing the peace. I’m not going to get into a long discussion of the government’s denial of native american’s freedom of religion but now in most cases their rights would be protected and those attempting to disrupt the ceremonies would be arrested for disturbing the peace. Just as religious ceremonies of christians ect. held on public land are protected. Though it wouldn’t likely get to the point of calling the police at a sundance. Most sundances are protected by dog soldiers at the gate that stop those intent on disrupting the ceremony before they get into the dance grounds.

Like I said, you have a right to your opinion but I disagree.

“bodhi” <psychedel...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b5239cd9-f05d-4989-a807-e73656aa9e15@z30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> The video of the Shanta Sena action I saw shows a wide circle of Family trying to difuse an ugly situation. A couple was calming down a younger brother. Vermin and others were expertly trying to maintain the crowd away from the center of the controversy. It was, what I saw, a very good defensive shanta sena movie. But whoever tried to snatched the girl’s camera away from her was in the wrong plain and simple. I witnessed and was involved with the kids coming in twice. You weren’t there so how do you know what I witnessed and what I didn’t.

Karin who is getting cranky with Bodhi

On Aug 12, 3:56 pm, “Karin Zirk” <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I witnessed and was involved with the kids coming in twice. You weren’t there so how do you know what I witnessed and what I didn’t.
> Karin who is getting cranky with Bodhi

Because I have your account and it dosen’t jive with Butterfly Bill’s. I smell bullshit but I gave you the benefit of the doubt and surmised you witnessed the girl’s second visit to the meadow.

I guess I was wrong.

So now if you could please clear up the inconsistency between your two stories??

BB mentions musical instruments, your account doesn’t. BB mentions the girls being harassed by High Holies before they went back and got re- enforcements (one smoke bomb??). and your account doesn’t

You mention firecrackers yet BB sezs it was one smoke bomb that was tossed on some dried grass and was quickly put out. I know firecrackers are extremely loud so now I’m wondering if maybe BB is extremely deaf because he recalls no incident in his account involving firecrackers, just a smoke bomb.

It’s just a really important detail to leave out if you’re writing a factual account.

yep, and I smell bullshit. Do you care to elaborate or change your story??

If you’re losing patience with me tough shit. I lost patience with you back when you brought up some bullshit incident that happen back in 2004 involving the goon squad shanta sena as some sort of high holy test as to why I’m not “worthy” to comment on this incident.

So Karin, I call bullshit and I think you’re trying to cover up for your friends. This is a very serious matter. Someone put their hands on a young child in a violent manner and apparently it’s O.K. for some High Holies to dodge responsibility for their actions.

Do you want to explain how BB’s account doesn’t mention firecrackers and yours does??

namaste;
bodhi

Yeah Karin, how come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come? How come?

Jesus H Fucking Anal Christ. I feel like grabbing a 45 and shooting!

I’ll just combine what I said there about K’s account!

Good account, calm, reasonable, honest... And I watched the video and saw only one grey beard - was that the mob of High Holies?

But enough of that! I want to hear more ranting about MOBS of HIGH HOLIES (all black belts in kung-fu, waving nunchakus and holding whips and clubs and tazers). Heck it wasn’t just a mob, it was THOUSANDS of sanctimonious High Holies’s marching lock-step in Nazi Boots (dragging their lawn chairs behind them - or were they lazy-boy recliners?), screaming AUM in a fascist display of cruelty and anger at the cowering innocent dewy eyed pre-teens. All the High Holies, who have lorded it over us arm chair hippies for decades, then stomped the shit out of the innocent flower children, crippling, if not their bodies, at least their minds and their faith in Rainbow forever. The High Holies then circled their lawn chairs and pretended to AUM, all the while searching for more children to tackle.

“bodhi” <psychedel...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:347029ef-a8c4-4de2-93e6-9715d6e62b56@h40g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

> Do you want to explain how BB’s account doesn’t mention firecrackers and yours does??

Seems to me that Bill and I were physically located at different spots in the series of events and each of us saw what we saw from our vantage points.

Karin:

> Seems to me that Bill and I were physically located at different spots in the series of events and each of us saw what we saw from our vantage points.

N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0! N0!

IT’S A CONSPIRACY AND A BETRAYAL OF EVERYTHING RAINBOW STANDS FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU’RE ARE A NAZI HIGH HOLIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ADMIT IT AND REPENT AND JUST MAYBE, WE’LL LET YOU SIT IN YOU LAWN CHAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail It’s just a really important detail

On Aug 12, 7:57 pm, Pat Easterling <easterling_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> ADMIT IT AND REPENT AND JUST MAYBE, WE’LL LET YOU SIT IN YOU LAWN CHAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Idont believe karin brings a chair ...but I always have one for her when she stops by

On Aug 12, 7:55 pm, Pat Easterling <easterling_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> ADMIT IT AND REPENT AND JUST MAYBE, WE’LL LET YOU SIT IN YOU LAWN CHAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i’m sick and tired of chairs being thrown around in this argument, it’s not right folks, the chairs have done nothing.

perhaps that is the problem, the chairs need to stand up and (non- violently, peacefully but not wholly metaphorically) *fight* for what is right and what is wrong here,..... rather than sitting around encouraging slack behavior in silence.

fucking chairs!

i love them, i hate them,.. i will often sit on the ground next to an empty one simply to spite it,..... it’s all i can do to contain my balance and space peacefully.

too solid a blissrail gives me stick eye too sometimes,.. but i must choose my battles,..

i think i’m safe standing with chairs, here,.. they know what is right, what is wrong, yet they *do* anyways!

... and the ass-grabbing,.. biggest pervs i know are chairs,.. they take all kinds,.. but are of one mind,..

why!

rise up!!

then what? .....

peace,
quiet,..

“Pat Easterling” <easterling_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:03360add-cf1f-44f9-9f6a-89003e0a3994@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

> ADMIT IT AND REPENT AND JUST MAYBE, WE’LL LET YOU SIT IN YOU LAWN CHAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t own a lawn chair but can I earn my brownie points now for later when I may want a lawn chair?

On Aug 12, 8:36 pm, “Karin Zirk” <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Seems to me that Bill and I were physically located at different spots in the series of events and each of us saw what we saw from our vantage points.

True, but you wrote:

> “Later that day some kids came into the main meadow through the Emergency 420 entrance. They were yelling and throwing firecrackers.”

while Bill writes:

> > “Then at maybe 10 o’clock I heard the sounds of a tambourine and some people telling others to be quiet, then I heard a girl’s voice saying, “You’re all a bunch of Nazis”. I looked over and saw three girls walking around onto the meadow, all talking loudly.
> > Several people who were sitting in the meadow got up and formed acircle around them and tried to shush them, but they responded with remarks like, “You’re a bunch of Nazi punks” and “You’re all a bunch of child molesters.” Other people started protesting the attempts to silence them, saying, “Let the children speak”.
> > Finally there was a complete circle around them and someone started an Om. One of the kids said to the one with the dreadlocks, “You’re being Omed over”, and she responded by saying, “This is getting too weird for me”, and she walked out of the circle, followed by all the rest. “
> > A little while later I heard some rumbling coming from the direction of Kid Village, and I heard their voices again, saying “Nazis” several times. I also started hearing what sounded like one of those plastic parade horns.
> > Then they came back to the main meadow a second time, and I found out that a fourth child had gotten hold of a trombone and was making blasts on it. “
-----------

There is a HUGE difference between musical instruments and firecrackers. In fact, in comparing your two stories the firecrackers ought to be a united theme because firecrackers are heard and not seen. Which means that no matter your locations you both should have heard fireworks.

It’s an important detail to omit because it gives motivation to the mob’s action. If they were throwing firecrackers I think most folks in the meadow would take notice. Firecrackers make a very loud sound and can be potentially dangerous.

No, I trust BB wouldn’t make up the story about the musical instruments. He describes the instruments the girls had - a tambourine, a plastic parade horn, and a trombone. That means he observed those items in details.

I’m beginning to suspect the whole “firework story” is a ruse to give justification (if there ever is such a thing) to violently attacking children.

BB was present at the Council held after the incident. Here’s what he wrote:

> > “There was much protestation at the way the girl had been tackled and wrestled to the ground, along with names being called like “child molesters”, “perverts”, and “Nazis”. There had been someone who had tried to grab the video camera away from the other girl but didn’t succeed, and someone else had taken away the trombone and damaged it in the process. “

No mention of fireworks - none, nada.

Isn’t that kinda strange considering how the firecrackers supposedly sparked the whole incident (according to you) Instead BB mentions musical instruments ......

> > “One person produced a bicycle horn in the shape of a hunting horn, with the rubber squeezer missing but a collar at its end that made a good mouthpiece, and gave it to the kids to make up for the destruction of the trombone.”

Again, this is Council and there is no discussion on the inappropriate use of fireworks.

Why is that??

Did BB feel it wasn’t important to mention?

Why not??

I don’t see why ya’ll can’t just fess up and admit that a girl was violently attacked for playing music during the Silence on the 4th. The Council apologized to the family and tried to make amends by replacing the musical instrument that was violently taken by the High Holies.

namaste;
bodhi

bodhi,

> “I’m beginning to suspect the whole “firework story” is a ruse to give justification (if there ever is such a thing) to violently attacking children.”

Damn it to hell!

Bodhi, with his amazing insights and analytical powers, has brilliantly figured out the whole purpose of us Nazi High Holies/ middle-age, middle-class angst-y householders. We want to violently attack children. The truth is out. We want to beat up, silence, dominate, and hurt children and we will concoct any story in order to do so. We are all on terrible ego trips. Oh bodhi, your awareness and clearness of thinking blows my mind and I swear that I will tell all the truth for once and for all. My hypocrisy is over; the truth will tell.

As bodhi, with such comprehension, wrote, “Our Elders very rarely bring their own kids to the gatherings because most of them are sullen and morose and all too aware of the faux-spiritual hypocrisy in the private life of most of these New Age-y “Elders”

Bodhi knows and has written here with great cunning that the children of us High Holies/middle-age, middle-class angst-y householders don’t come to Rainbow because they already have realized the hypocrisy and lies that we, as products and instigators of the “hippie” movement of the 60’s represent. Those children learned of our bullshit at home and quite rightly have retreated into sullen depression.

But I even went further than bodhi suspects. Personally, I was just pretending to be a hard working responsible father who joined Kiddie Village in a gathering with his wife and kids many years ago. I tricked my own children into becoming participants in Rainbow Gatherings! I’m living in shame; my own children have yet to realize their father’s devious life.

In all truthfulness, I was just laying the bullshit on, pretending and faking an entire life, like a KGB mole raising a family and having a job, while secretly reporting to Moscow. I will tell the truth now; I was infiltrating Rainbow, carefully building my reputation by chopping wood and vegetables, hauling logs, digging latrines, cooking that shitty vegetarian food, and even clearing poison ivy! It was horrible to do, but yes, I forced myself to actually paint children’s faces and even entertain them with stories and song! Years of raising my own children with love and care, welcoming lots of other children to my home, tent, camps, joining with families in activities like backpacking, trips to the canyons of Southern Utah, the mountains and beaches of Maui, Kaui, O’ahu and the Big Island, trips to the mountains of Idaho, and so forth... All of this was in preparation to fool bodhi and the rest of the population of planet Earth, into letting me become a lawn chair sitting Holy Holie/middle-age, middle- class angst-y householder and get in position to leap up and tackle and injure the gentle nymphs and cooing babies who were innocently softly playing hymns and burning sacred incense at the peace pole.

Damn you bodhi! Now that you, of all people, have pierced the shell of bullshit and exposed our devious plans, we now have no choice but to surrender. Yes, I admit it. There was no fireworks, no smoke bomb; just beautiful gently children dancing and softly singing. Please forgive me, I repent my life of sin.

So... what is the moral of this story?

If you bring children to a Rainbow gathering be prepared to pack heat now!

Personally, if some “elder” or “hi-holy” assaults one of my children.... THEY WILL BE LEAVING IN A BODY BAG!

Either that or they will be leaving blinded by a fuse and a lung full of bear mace!

Guess ya got to start carrying a tazer at the gatherings~!

How long before someone shows up at main circle with an AK, all disgruntled and after payback, leveling the crowds of hippies?

On Aug 13, 6:45 am, Gawd <rainbowfamilyoflivingli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Personally, if some “elder” or “hi-holy” assaults one of my children.... THEY WILL BE LEAVING IN A BODY BAG!
> Either that or they will be leaving blinded by a fuse and a lung full of bear mace!

If my children entered the main circle for the sole purpose of disrupting the silence with shouting, trombone blasts, and throwing of firecrackers I would hope that adults would gently restrain them, confiscate the firecrackers and hold them until I arrived to deal with the problem. It takes a village to raise a child and usually most rainbows are together enough to help in some small ways. But then, my children would never contemplate doing any such thing. If I came to the silence and my child began acting out I’d restrain them myself and walk them out of the meadow to deal with their behavior where it didn’t interfere with others spiritual ceremony. That the parents seem to encourage extreme negative behavior by their children seems to be the root of this problem

Gawd wrote:

> Personally, if some “elder” or “hi-holy” assaults one of my children.... THEY WILL BE LEAVING IN A BODY BAG!

Gawd, if you ever go to a gathering, you will be found curled in a ball whimpering beside the trail.

On Aug 13, 4:09 am, thistle-m <michael_this...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If my children entered the main circle for the sole purpose of disrupting the silence with shouting, trombone blasts, and throwing of firecrackers I would hope that adults would gently restrain them, confiscate the firecrackers and hold them until I arrived to deal with the problem. It takes a village to raise a child and usually most rainbows are together enough to help in some small ways.

As in “take into custody”? Thistle of course has the right to license the ‘village’ to gently restrain his children if they become obstreperous, but whether or not all parents must be required to give such permission is a whole different can of worms. The presumption of trust and the actual bestowal of trust are distinct.

> But then, my children would never contemplate doing any such thing. If I came to the silence and my child began acting out I’d restrain them myself and walk them out of the meadow to deal with their behavior where it didn’t interfere with others spiritual ceremony. That the parents seem to encourage extreme negative behavior by their children seems to be the root of this problem

“Ya wild kid ya!” – Mayor Shin (yelling at his daughter’s boyfriend in ‘The Music Man’)

Some children mature more slowly than others, and some people never grow up. Teens behaving like two year olds [PAY ATTENTION TO ME!] might not be the parent’s fault is all I’m saying.

Disturbing the solemnity of a prayer with firecrackers is outrageous and I personally have no problem with mature adults confiscating firecrackers like Karin did, but as to restraint I think BB’s comment that “the situation could have been handled better” [might be paraphrased] tells the tale.

Slack! If you do the best you know how your can always honestly say, “I did my best.” IOW, if you want better go hire a pro…

In praise of Bob [Bob’s Church of Unlimited Slack], Sanity

On Aug 13, 5:24 am, David <m...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gawd, if you ever go to a gathering, you will be found curled in a ball whimpering beside the trail.

I have never seen anyone “curled in a ball whimpering beside the trail” at a rainbow gathering. I hope you didn’t mean that as a threat, because I think it could be misinterpreted as one.

<S>

Sanity wrote:

> I have never seen anyone “curled in a ball whimpering beside the trail” at a rainbow gathering. I hope you didn’t mean that as a threat, because I think it could be misinterpreted as one.

No, I meant that Gawd would have a freak out panic attack. That Gawd would not be able to handle it. By the way, I have more than once found some “curled in a ball whimpering by the trail” Some folks just have a hard time with it all. I doubt that Gawd has ever been to a Gather, nor will ever go to one. Gawd thinks it is OK to threaten to kill. I don’t.

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