Miranda, Raven

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Miranda, Raven – part 4

(Warner)

> .10:45 p.m. Monday July 13 Just received a telephone call from Miranda Raven. She is stranded at a Texaco station, 1211 East Butler, Flagstaff, AZ after a fire under the hood of her pickup (my paraphrase). She is requesting assistance from Flagstaff Family. She says she needs 40 inch 8 guage ignition ware and spark plug wires for a ‘71 GMC Pickup Truck (350 engine). Also needs an exhaust manifold (45 degree angle).

This is Fri, and I may be answering too late, but I will anyway.

It sounds like a spark plug wire burned up.

A wire burns because it has too much current go thru it.

Too much current goes thru usually because somewhere in its circuit a short to ground develops, bypassing the usual resistance in the circuit.

In the case of a spark plug wire, the burn can be spectacular because the secondary coil of the ignition “coil” (really a transformer with two coils) has 35,000 volts on it momentarily. This can cause burnup level current in the primary wires as well.

A common cause of such a short on a spark plug wire is the piston under it coming loose from the connecting rod, or the rod from the crankshaft – causing the piston to go all the way to the top of the cylinder, touching the end of the plug. This would mean having to take the engine apart, or replacing the engine, or just the short block (the bottom half of the engine that contains the cylinders, excluding the cylinder head.

you just had a faulty spark plug, and you may get away with simply replacing the burned up parts.

What this means is someone should do a compression check of the cylinder before simply replacing the parts, of they may just burn up again.

Does she have money? Does she know much about cars? Can she get in touch with Jennybaby so she can talk with us again?

- Butterfly Bill

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On 17 Jul 1998 22:11:27 -0700, butter...@usa.net (Butterfly Bill) wrote:

> It sounds like a spark plug wire burned up.
> wire burns because it has too much current go thru it.

This is true of most wires, but it doen’t apply to spark plug wires, they carry very little current, and very, very high voltage.

> Too much current goes thru usually because somewhere in its circuit a short to ground >develops, bypassing the usual resistance in the circuit.

This is also true.

> In the case of a spark plug wire, the burn can be spectacular because the secondary coil of the ignition “coil” (really a transformer with two coils) has 35,000 volts on it momentarily. This can cause burnup level current in the primary wires as well.

Wrong, the normal operating voltage of the ignition secondary is 20-40,000 volts and this will NOT harm the primary side of the ignition in the slightest.

> A common cause of such a short on a spark plug wire is the piston under it coming loose from the connecting rod, or the rod from the crankshaft – causing the piston to go all the way to the top of the cylinder, touching the end of the plug. This would mean having to take the engine apart, or replacing the engine, or just the short block (the bottom half of the engine that contains the cylinders, excluding the cylinder head.
> or
> you just had a faulty spark plug, and you may get away with simply replacing the burned up parts.

This is completely wrong. Ignition problems are only rarely caused by major internal engine failures, such as you describe. They are much more commonly caused by the spark plug wires getting burned by the hot exhaust manifolds that they live right next to. Or spark plugs that simply have too many miles on them. Your last sentence is the one that’s mostly right.

> What this means is someone should do a compression check of the cylinder before simply replacing the parts, of they may just burn up again

This is true, but more than likely unneccessary. A lack of compression in any cylinder is a sign of serious internal damge, and very costly to repair.

Rick Sorak
the Hippie Mechanic
Please feel free to email car questions!

Just looking at the sparkplug will tell where to go next. If it’s smashed flat..look out. If you had a loose piston, you’d probably hear it rapping. The tip of the plug is ground and a piston touching it won’t short it out.[smashing the tip into the electrode will though] Look also for carbon fouling. [oily or fuel smell?] Touching a plug wire to ground won’t burn it as there isn’t much amperage. [about 3 to 5 amps distributed amongst 8? cylinders with non continueous pulse reduction in available power] It’s more likely that the wire, if it is burned, touched the exhaust manifold or was exposed to manifold gasses at 1800 degrees via a crack. Is that why a request for a 45 deg exhaust manifold? There are ceramic repair compounds for temp repair of manifolds and shield the wire from the heat by re routing or wrapping it in foil. The vehicle will run with no manifold at all...but you won’t like it.

Often, a bad plug [open circuit inside] will begin firing if the wire is held away from the plug and allowed to arc. It can still fire if held to ground outside the combustion chamber, but the increased pressure inside results in increased resistance to spark jump. Holding the wire away, increases the voltage at the plug tip.

This is a high tension LRC tank circuit and does’nt behave like a straight DC short or open.

Used plugs and wires can generally be had for free from old junkers. Check for length of plug! Too long is a no no. Too short?? oh well.

Check for carbon tracks in the distributer cap...tiny burn holes in the center of the button.

From the sound of it, she may have a fuel leak and a cracked manifold [DC short?]..bad combo. No mention of what sort of fire. Nothing wrong with the plugs or engine itself.

On 18 Jul 1998 07:25:04 -0700, coy...@alltel.net wrote:

> Just looking at the sparkplug will tell where to go next. If it’s smashed flat..look out. If you had a loose piston, you’d probably hear it rapping. The tip of the plug is ground and a piston touching it won’t short it out.[smashing the tip into the electrode will though] Look also for carbon fouling. [oily or fuel smell?] Touching a plug wire to ground won’t

Coyote you know your automotive stuff, unlike Bill who’s post full of half truths, I was responding to.

Rick Sorak
the Hippie Mechanic
Please feel free to email car questions!

Then again, we had an engine fire on a bus simply from heat melting the insulation. Bad wire placement- have hippies been working on yr engine?
this could be real simple.

Marc

> > A wire burns because it has too much current go thru it.
> This is true of most wires, but it doen’t apply to spark plug wires,

they carry very little current, and very, very high voltage.

IF the circuit containing the wire (i.e. basically the plug) has its normal resistance. If somewhere that wire is shorted to ground bypassing that resistance, it will become very high current with very high voltage because there is very little resistance in a simple length of wire. (Voltage divided by resistance equals current – Ohm’s Law.)

> This is completely wrong. Ignition problems are only rarely caused by major internal engine failures, such as you describe.

This is an actual trouble I’ve witnessed myself on my Texas Mexican friend’s Buick. He had to replace piston, rod, and pin in one cylinder.

> They are much more commonly caused by the spark plug wires getting burned by the hot exhaust manifolds that they live right next to. Or spark plugs that simply have too many miles on them.

Agreed, this is also a possibility (and much less expensive one).

> Wrong, the normal operating voltage of the ignition secondary is 20-40,000 volts and this will NOT harm the primary side of the ignition in the slightest.

A sudden change in current in the secondary can feed back and induce a sudden change in the primary after. This is called -if I recall correctly -hysteresis. (This is a problem in designing audio transformers.) Enough current could be induced thus to damage the primary.

I think the basic message I was trying to convey is – electrical stuff doesn’t just burn up by itself. Something else makes it burn up. You have to find that something else before installing new stuff. (For all any of us really know, that bag of stash she lost was up there and caught fire.)

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On 18 Jul 1998 16:35:24 -0700, butter...@hotmail.com (Butterfly Bill) wrote:

> > > A wire burns because it has too much current go thru it.
> > This is true of most wires, but it doen’t apply to spark plug wires, they carry very little current, and very, very high voltage.
> IF the circuit containing the wire (i.e. basically the plug) has its normal resistance. If somewhere that wire is shorted to ground bypassing that resistance, it will become very high current with very high voltage because there is very little resistance in a simple length of wire. (Voltage divided by resistance equals current – Ohm’s Law.)\

But as I said this doesn’t apply to spark plug wires. All plug wires these days except high performance or racing wires are carbon core. This carbon core has a very high resistance about 5-10K ohms per foot. The reason for this is to supress noise in your radio. But if you took your car and raced it, you’d put solid copper core wires with about o ohms per foot. Guess what? The ignition system won’t care and would run and run this way for years. As I said the coil puts out a very high voltage and very little current. Much too little to ever overload a wire and melt it.

> >This is completely wrong. Ignition problems are only rarely caused by major internal engine failures, such as you describe.
> This is an actual trouble I’ve witnessed myself on my Texas Mexican friend’s Buick. He had to replace piston, rod, and pin in one cylinder.

I didn’t it say impossible, just very unlikely.

> > Wrong, the normal operating voltage of the ignition secondary is 20-40,000 volts and this will NOT harm the primary side of the ignition in the slightest.
> A sudden change in current in the secondary can feed back and induce a sudden change in the primary after. This is called -if I recall correctly -hysteresis. (This is a problem in designing audio transformers.) Enough current could be induced thus to damage the primary.

The primary only turns on and off 12 volt power to the coil. If a coil is good there’s over a Megohm of resistance between the coils output terminal and the power leads. This can’t allow much of anything to be induced. In over 15 yrs. of fixing cars for a living, I’ve never seen a primary that was damaged from a shorted plug wire.

> I think the basic message I was trying to convey is – electrical stuff doesn’t just burn up by itself. Something else makes it burn up. You have to find that something else before installing new stuff. (For all any of us really know, that bag of stash she lost was up there and caught fire.)

I will fully agree the wires just transport the power and if the devices require more than the wire can carry the wires gets hot. That’s why most all the circiuts are protected by fuses and fusible links.

Didn’t mean to jump you so hard, but when I saw what appeared to me to be a minor external engine problem and you where suggesting major internal problems, I was afraid if these were even read by the girl in question, That she might go through an unneccessary scare. My intentions were to prevent this....

At 04:09 PM 7/18/98 GMT, you wrote:

> Coyote you know your automotive stuff, unlike Bill who’s post full of half truths, I was responding to.

Yea, I do a lot of telephone diagnostics for strandees. It’s gotten so I can do a major rebuild but not a tuneup. Someday I’m gonna figure out why this 85 Honda CRX HF keeps konking out at stoplights...tach dips to zero then idle resumes unless the engine quit. ..and the little knearled knob that controls AC idlespeed doesn’t do anything. Probably some connection beteen the two. Got any ideas? at 47mpg 70mph ,I ain’t complaining. My scooter never got that kind of mileage...not even close!

KD’C

On 19 Jul 1998 09:15:53 -0700, in alt.gathering.rainbow you wrote:

> Yea, I do a lot of telephone diagnostics for strandees. It’s gotten so I can do a major rebuild but not a tuneup. Someday I’m gonna figure out why this 85 Honda CRX HF keeps konking out at stoplights...tach dips to zero then idle resumes unless the engine quit. ..and the little knearled knob that controls AC idlespeed doesn’t do anything. Probably some connection beteen the two. Got any ideas? at 47mpg 70mph ,I ain’t complaining. My scooter never got that kind of mileage...not even close!

The black plastic knob on the back side of the carb is the base idle adj screw. In thoery, when the car is hot and the AC is off, this will adjust the idle speed. By the way what is the idle speed? When you turn on the AC the idle speed is raised to compensate for the additional load of the comp. on the engine, This raises the idle above the point where the knob matters.

These particular Hondas have a problem with the rubber insulator under the carb delveloping hair line cracks when hot, these allow a small vaccum leak. Ck this for your stalling. The cure is to replace this rubber carb spacer with a new one.

In article <35b17a75...@netnews.msn.com>, xmas...@email.msn.com (Rick Sorak) writes:

> Didn’t mean to jump you so hard, but when I saw what appeared to me to be a minor external engine problem and you where suggesting major internal problems, I was afraid if these were even read by the girl in question, That she might go through an unneccessary scare. My intentions were to prevent this....

Wow; Mirranda Raven a mere girl.

Snik, snik... sputter... harrrr

ROFLMAO

Considering she built the sucker I’d say a hippy has indeed been under the hood. Or was is just the house in back she built... hmmm.

Montana Crystal

> 10:45 p.m. Monday July 13 Just received a telephone call from Miranda Raven.
> She is stranded at a Texaco station, 1211 East Butler, Flagstaff, AZ

Damn,Warner why didn’t you call me?

Love,James

Howlin’,growlin’,prowlin’ http://www.cataholic.com/james all you need is a strong heart and nerves of steel.....

> Damn,Warner why didn’t you call me?

I was just a few blocks from her. What we got here is a problem to communicate....

Is there any other news of how she’s doing? Where she is at ? If she still is in trouble let me know, I have some people in Flag that could help her.

James are both these eddress’ yours and are they both functional??

peace and love + irb +

In a message dated 98-07-22 20:49:59 EDT, JamesA wrote:

> Damn,Warner why didn’t you call me?

1. I didn’t have your telephone number. 2. My understanding is that you are located in Phoenix. 3. Miranda has a strong Spirit/Heart. 4. Miranda has nerves of steel. 5. By the time I was able to locate Flagstaff Family via email, Miranda had already gotten rolling again through her own auto mechanic abilities (apparently by 3 p.m. Tuesday July 14th).

Any Arizona Family willing to be on “stand-by” for potential emergencies on the return flight, please send me PRIVATE email. Otherwise send out prayers and energies for Miranda. Warner

JamesA...SOS from Singed Raven (Flagstaff, AZ)

I don’t know anything of her status......hope she’s still not there........

I’m JamesA@aol.com......ja...@asu.edu is someone else.

James

All I got was this note from the other James please remail me the whole story.

JamesRobertAllen6029652781Fax6029652751JamesATasu.eduSupportSy stemsAnalystComputerScienceAndEngineeringDepartmentArizonaStateUni versityCollegeofEngineeringTempeArizonaUnitedStatesofAmerica852875406

> Any Arizona Family willing to be on “stand-by” for potential emergencies on the return flight, please send me PRIVATE email. Otherwise send out prayers and energies for Miranda. Warner

I’m always here,Warner...you got my # .Just call if the need arises..:)

Love,love,love...Jennybaby

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> I don’t know anything of her status......hope she’s still not there........
> I’m JamesA@aol.com......ja...@asu.edu is someone else.

Got that, sorry ! Thanks !!!

peace and love +irb +

> 3. Miranda has a strong Spirit/Heart. 4. Miranda has nerves of steel. 5. By the time I was able to locate Flagstaff Family via email, Miranda had already gotten rolling again through her own auto mechanic abilities (apparently by 3 p.m. Tuesday July 14th).

When you find out, why don’t you tell all us long distance mechanics what was really wrong with her truck? (And maybe make all of us look stupid.) After all that discussion, I’ve just gotta know.

- Butterfly Bill

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In a message dated 98-07-25 10:36:59 EDT, Buffalo Bill wrote:

> When you find out, why don’t you tell all us long distance mechanics what was really wrong with her truck?

Dear Bill (and others): All I did (originally) was pass along a simple, clear message from Miranda Raven when she was stranded in Flagstaff, AZ (thank Goddess and MR’s own car mechanic abilities -- only temporarily). The message asked for some specific parts. It did not ask for a gratuitous guessing game by people who were not “on-site” to see the beastie... Myself: I am an attorney; I garden; I play clarinet. My own auto mechanic abilities are limited to adding coolant and changing tires. Why would you want info second- hand from someone who has to go look at the back of a car to know what is its make & model? You want to know what the problem was (I HOPE it remains past tense)? Ask Miranda the next time you see her ! ! ! Remember: The grapes of wrath soon turn to angry raisins. Warner Dragon

> You want to know what the problem was (I HOPE it remains past tense)? Ask Miranda the next time you see her ! ! ! Remember: The grapes of wrath soon turn to angry raisins. Warner Dragon

All right, ALL RIGHT ALREADY! I’ll ask her when she gets back.

Altho I gotta say, for a while I thought she HAD gotten back and I was reading her. It looks like a some of her style is rubbing off on you.

- Butterfly Bill

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Hi,
I’m Niheala, I’m in Phoenix AZ. (602) 780-0000(cool # huh!) e-mail to me:
Nih...@yahoo.com , i am always willing to help any way i can.

lovin u

bright blessing,
Niheala

I can’t write this all at once because I’m fatigued to beat the band (a), it’s a boring story because it is about me and because it is old news (b), and it makes me angry (c). But here goes: I had a broken manifold. It melted down my wiring near its dragon breath. I had a fire complete with paramedics, firetruck and ambulance in flagstaff. (the paramedics all tried to get me to go to the hospital which I woud not do because the proprietor of the gas station was threatening to have my truck/gypsy house towed.) In all four of those instances, I rebuilt wiring. Furthermore, I tried to clamp and wire the manifold together. I went to junk yards in Bakersfield, Barstow, Needles and Kingman trying to replace the manifold to no avail. What with all these delays, though I set out from San Jose on the 2nd of July on this 1000 mile trip, I pulled into the gathering site on July 16 out of gas, out of money, out of food, out of water, and nearly out of lighting, cooking and heating sources. Also I was nearly out of medications, though of these Warner was sending more via US mails. [more tomorrow. I must go sleep.] Miranda, Raven

So I pulled into F....y’s kitchen and hung with Z.g and some other brothers for a few hours, assured all around as to automotive repairs etc. And specifically, given my extremis re breathing and that this was 9 or 10 thousand feet, I underlined to Z.g and others that I have severe emphysema and it is a concern and that I might need extra help and that I warranted monitoring. (I was already having a lot of trouble.) I intended to drive to L..e’s (front gate) and say hello, but ran out of gas on the way, stayed put, and slept all night. Awoke in daylight, got my bike off the rack on the grill and rode (incredably slowly with long, long stops) to L...’s rv. It took me like a half hour to go this quarter mile...L..e was his usual sunny, loving, welcoming self. K....f was his worst, most obnoxious self, demanding of me what I had as his way of saying hello. Also he said he had no use for me and why had I come if I had no money, drugs, or beer?) I spent the day at L’s orienting myself to cleanup and cleanup crew vs. leos trying to figure where I could be of service, at the same time I told K and L in minutia of my truck troubles. I specifically asked if I should pull in at that camp? Amidst all their own breakdowns, was I welcome? Could they fix my truck? “You better not even think of pulling in anywhere else!” was the reply. Through all this day, K....f and K....f Jr--aka D...e, had screaming fits at one another periodically. There were other screamers thereabouts, too. At some late point, L got several gallons of gas for me which I took to my truck which I in turn drove up to his camp. My hectically loud manifold was there for everyone to hear, corroborating my story. After dark, I went to go to sleep in my gypsy house, but my gypsy house was full of campfire smoke. When I lay down, I couldn’t breathe at all. I got up and tried to start the truck to move it away from all campfires. My wiring again caught fire from the broken manifold and K and K Jr started screaming at me as they pounded on the truck windows and someone pulled me out of the cab and flung me onto the ground and K and K Jr continued screaming at me. I couldn’t breathe at all; was in total acidosis (paralysis due to pulmonary blockage) due to the exertion of having been violently pulled from the cab and inhaling the black smoke from the wires on fire. Other men started yelling, too. Contrary to the assessments being yelled--that I had freaked out; that I was hysterically frozen--I was in perfect control outside of the physical paralysis that ebbed and flowed a bit so that a few times I was able to move around the truck. They were unable to get the hood up--it is hard; I always use a big screw driver as well as the hood latch. K and K Jr were screaming “Open your hood, Miranda. Open it, Bitch.” over and over again. I was trying to show them--whoever now had the fire extinguisher that the fire was accessible from underneath, behind the right wheel. But everyone was yelling about the hood. They bent up my bike and in doing so knocked me down and hit me some more. This assault along with continually breathing smoke made my voice nearly inaudible while I was telling them how to open the hood and/or to shoot the fire from underneath. Finally they got the hood open, put out the fire. (The time elapsed must have been over five minutes. The indentical fire in Flagstaff which I alone dealt with, took me less than two minutes to extinguish...) Then all these charming shanti sena bros stood around screaming “bitch” and that I had nearly burned up the forest, every vehicle in the camp and all the people. [That’s enough for tonight. More of this lovely rainbow tale tomorrow.] Miranda, Raven

As might be imagined, I put in a miserable night. Though I slept, I was little refreshed and my sense of injustice and wounding was not diminished in the least. At one point I had gotten out of bed because D...e had been standing around rationalizing his abysmal behavior in a stage whisper to a circle of people just outside my gypsy house: “She [whisper whisper whisper]. She [whisper whisper whisper].” So I went out and told him/them to come and talk rationally and calmly with me, or to go whisper about their new scapegoat (me) somewhere out of my hearing. So he screamed at me a while more about how I had ostensbly panicked and was therefore a bitch, but then he went away. I lay awake a long time, resolving to let none of the people in that camp near me or my rig; resolving to tell this tale here, just as I have been for three days now. It will be seen easily that for the twenty-one months that I have written here intermittantly that I have defended A camp and the front gate, including K....f. The same has been true of me in council and general conversation. Never again. These people, this configuration/population of people are out of control and need to be managed and put out of business next year. Especially K....f. What happened to me could happen on June first, July first, or August first. And it does happen. It is ugly. It is mean. It is unrainbow. K and his son, and other participants in this dog pack attack on me think themselves to be wonderful emergency workers. Whether I was panicked, which I was in no way, or paralysed by pulmonary shutdown, which was the case, the last effective tactic would be to yell at me. Secondly: to fixate on the hood latch is madness. D had first seen the fire--and he was sitting on the ground! He saw it under the truck! Why then not extinguish it from that vantage? Thirdly: How is it all these guys couldn’t figure out to get a pry bar to open the hood? It is so common for those older hood latches to be that way. I’ve had at least three trucks that are like that. Everytime I tried to get a screwdriver out of the cab, somebody pushed me back toward the grill. [More in a bit] Miranda, Raven

In the morning, I lay in bed and listened to a lot of talk about me and my rig. Every time a new rig from down in the site would stop by L’s, the new wonderful story would be told about what heroes they all were to have put out this fire this hysterical, careless bitch had created to endanger them all. And then what a wingnut I was to have denied my culpability and my wingnutism. Oh boy! I ask you: HOW do you counteract that? Such nonsensical gibberish is hypnotism that becomes fact in people’s minds. When I heard K....f come over to my truck and start poking under the hood, I went out, closed the hood and told him to leave my truck alone, that neither he nor anyone from that front gate camp were going to work on my rig. I said I’d seen them at work the night before and wanted none of their energy anywhere near me or my truck. He screamed at me which set up a new major wave of caterwalling amongst these guys, several of whom came over and held bic lighter flames to the gypsy house. They said they were going to burn it down because I had almost burned up the whole camp the night before.

Just then, I looked up and there was S...., Kegger D...’s 19 year old boy, saying, “Good morning my beautiful kind Rainbow Sister. Would you like me to get a chain and my Ford truck and tow your truck and house away from these violent shanti sena?” I said yea; and he did just that, pulling me a quarter mile into a little stand of pines at the wood’s edge. And there I sat for fourteen days with little food or water, and no meds for the first ten days. No one but S and A, his 14 year old girlfriend even came and visited me for four days. I mean there were all kinds of folks who knew I was out of everything other than front gate people. During one forty hour period, I had a stack of crackers, a handful of three quarters cooked beans and a quart of water. I was so hungry I actually couldn’t sleep. The breathing thing was such that when I closed my eyes the prevalent image was a yawning grave and slathering demons. Sometimes I’d have to pound on my sternum or pump my arms against the sides of my ribs to get my lungs to move. I was ten steps from L’s kitchen where the bowel I’ve eaten out of daily for six years was and I couldn’t go get it, even though I knew L was leaving. Now I don’t have that bowel. [more in a bit] Miranda, Raven

[Sorry about the ugly image created by the spelling error in part four: Of course I mean bowl not bowel...]

When finally R..h, a sister I’d met at L’s needed shelter from a storm and came knocking on my gypsy house, I begged her to get word to s about my manifold. (She told me she hadn’t come before because she didn’t want to invade my privacy. I said had come a thousand miles to be with 30000 of my closest relatives and also wanted solitude?) I asked her to get me food and water, and help going to town to get my meds at the hospital. She came back twenty-four hours later empty handed. In another twenty-four hours she came back with another sister, an empty pipe, a gallon of water and a half a tuna fish sandwhich. (I did get up to A camp which was an 1/8 mile from me a few time where I was given scraps of food.) The next day I went into town, got a manifold that didn’t quite fit (I had taken the broken one off and had replaced the fried wires and hoses) and went to the hospital. They gave me inhalation therapy and told me to get off the mountain. They also gave me a script for antibiotics for strep throat and infected ears, as well as a script for inhalors. These I had no money to fill. Some townfolk gave me a ride back to my rig and a sack of food. And no rainbows came to my rig for several more days. Finally I was able to ride my bike and walk leaning on it with resting along the way the quarter mile to where L had been but to where there was now a kitchen and to where eight or so of the cleanup crew had moved. Now this was a dirty filthy kitchen and it’s a wonder we aren’t all dead. This is an important point in all this: If I had been given proper help, if I’d had my medications and proper food and hydration, I could have been running a wonderful, delicious, nutritious, sanitary kitchen. That would have served cleanup. It was badly needed. Instead, I was marginalized and neglected. Scapegoated. Ostracized. Ridiculed. The attitude invented about me by K et alia slopped over with these high holies, who mocked me when I tried to speak of the extremis of my emphysema. When I spoke of very real hunger. People actually said things to me like that I was being antisocial to hideout in my gypsy house rather than to come to the kitchen. There was just no impressing upon people that I could not walk the 1/4 mile unless I could walk the 1/4 mile. That walking up there created a 16 to 36 hour sleeping response. [more in a bit--hang on; this sad story almost done] Miranda, Raven

There were also not-to-be-forgotten-fast-enough moments like Steven W....w..f saying to me of my rig: “What brother’s rig is this?” And: “Do you have people who are going to come and rescue you?” And there was the sister who yelled at me that SHE didn’t have a fancy gypsy house when I was saying I needed food, water and meds. Whereupon I could only splutter. There is much more deprivation and degradation I could write of. But you get it. Finally, I had my truck towed down into town the very moment I had money on July 31. I plowed through almost $500. getting it running and then went to Tucsan to see a friend, Phoenix to see my grandson and now home. But what a wretched trip. I’m none too fond of the rainbow right now. I feel bitter and abused. At the same time I review the main fact like a mantra: These dysfunctionals I encountered on the land ARE NOT EXAMPLARS OF THE RAINBOW. At the same time, though not A camp and not the gate people, these clean up crew high holies truly are folks you and I both would have thought would know and do better. Since I’ve been home since saturday night, I’ve warmed to Warner’s tales of the gathering. I’ve drunk up what I see here on agr. I’ve taken to my heart the Guide and the gifts to me sent home with Warner. But it’s like I have post traumatic shock syndrome and I’m having trouble remembering LOVE and KINDNESS. I can’t remember why I usually eat sleep drink and breathe rainbow. I’m like numb. I was thinking on the land that I’d never go to another gathering. Now I’m not sure I won’t. But I haven’t felt why I might go again yet. And we can say it wasn’t gathering. But it was in a way; and likewise, I’ve heard many a story like my own that occured during gatherings. I think we need to do better. We need this gate shit revamped. We need consciousness raising about disabilities. We need to be more vigorous making sure people are alright. I haven’t written this to whine. Or even accuse and exact revenge by talking about these poor people. I’ve gone to the very real pain of putting this down here because it needs to be understood that there is much to do in these matters. If people who can write and speak don’t express this stuff, no one will know of it. I do love you all. Miranda, Raven, She Who Is Sad But Healing

WSB3A...@aol.com wrote:

*Big Snip*

> I was thinking on the land that I’d never go to another gathering. Now I’m not sure I won’t. But I haven’t felt why I might go again yet. And we can say it wasn’t gathering. But it was in a way; and likewise, I’ve heard many a story like my own that occured during gatherings. I think we need to do better. We need this gate shit revamped. We need consciousness raising about disabilities. We need to be more vigorous making sure people are alright. I haven’t written this to whine. Or even accuse and exact revenge by talking about these poor people. I’ve gone to the very real pain of putting this down here because it needs to be understood that there is much to do in these matters. If people who can write and speak don’t express this stuff, no one will know of it. I do love you all. Miranda, Raven, She Who Is Sad But Healing

Miranda Raven,

The last time I tried to act as a go-between on this and related topics you bit my head off. Perhaps it was deserved then.

I have been on the sidelines trying to do just what you speak to in these messages, i.e. bring up the topic of disabled folks attending gatherings.

It remains my hope that we can find area’s where we agree and work to getting gatherings up to speed.

Tom Cagle

nh-a...@juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6482
http://members.xoom.com/bunnygail/index.htm Moderated 8-9 pm Eastern

Miranda,

I didn’t get to go the gathering this year, and am glad of the fact. I also have lung and arthritic difficulties and was told early on not to go up to that altitude. I’m sorry you had such a horrendous experience. Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. I hope you’ll be coming to the picnic this Sunday. I am still looking forward to meeting you.

Love, Light and prayers going your way,
MamaMadi

Miranda has said her thing more profoundly than I could ever add to, but I still want to say, this is an example of a common attitude seen during cleanup carried to its extreme. Around July the 8th, the vibe at the Gathering goes from peace, love, and We Are Opening to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in less than 24 hours. People start going around arbitrarily saying We Don’t Want Any Bliss Ninnies to anybody, whether they are really doing cleanup work or not, and in general, acting like Barney Fife assholes.

I think this is possibly not unrelated to why we have trouble getting people to stay for cleanup. It’s as if some people forgot everything they just experienced during the height of the Gathering.

- Butterfly Bill

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Sister Miranda,

I’m so sorry that you who came to help cleanup were so badly treated by rainbow “brothers”; that you had such a terrible time and heavy vehicle karma. I am sorry that these ‘shanti sena’ peace keepers did not have any center of peace within themselves. If they had they would have acted mindfully as well as listened to you. They sound like the same kind of clowns that were calling themselves rainbow in the ‘70’s.Barbarian assholes. I would never gather together with other men and “male bond” by calling a sister degrading names. I hope that some read your post and stand up like real men and decent persons and offer you their apologies. Also,I’m sure that you know; as we all mirror each other; often so called whole healthy people exhibit negative behaviour and attitudes when in the presence of disabled (challenged) people. Their own insecurities come out and they are not able to face them. So,while such acts by ‘friends’ does hurt, it is best to forgive them as best that one may. Yet, of course one must always stand up for ones’ self and be in ones’ ‘friends’ faces about the possiblity of such continued behaviour.

My your next gathering with ‘family’ be far more supportive and loving.

Spirits’ Blessings Always

Arrowstar + Tribe of Romany Star + Rainbow -

Arrowstar
Jara Arrowstar
Events for Dixie Region 4 Rainbow Families
“Mother Earth Networking”

Sorry to hear about this sister, sounds like you had quite the travels. Not all are like this, and people sometimes act differently in times of stress and panic. Please try to forgive them, for they knew not what they where doing.

Peace Love and Light to all who follow the Rainbow of life,
windofchange

arro...@webtv.net (Jay Purselley) wrote - - -

> I hope that some read your post and stand up like real men and decent persons and offer you their apologies

I’m not sure I understand this. Are you talking about the ones that were rude and disrespectful or others who had nothing to do with this to apologize for their behavior?

Dan

“We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it, and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again, and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.”
--Mark Twain

Hi ! Miranda, Raven,

Sorry I missed you in Flagstaff, I might have been only a few blocks from where I understand you broke down. When were you in Flagstaff?

I can’t believe what Susan and her family are going through, dreadful. My heart and my prayers go out to them. Glad you’re back safe, if a bit bruised.

Have a good rest.

peace and love + irb +

Miranda

I don’t know gatherings from beans, my only contact with rainbow has been one friend and the newsgroups. But what you have described is a condensed version of what many with developing health problems go through with family, friends, society. You seem to have had the bad luck to concentrate it into one wretched trip. One would hope for better from those who proclaim love for one another and a rejection of an uncaring babylon. But the truth is that such people are at least as likely to be uncaring and bigoted towards those they don’t understand as are red necks. And there is something about a misunderstood or invisible illness that really brings this out in people.

Now that I am in a wheelchair people tend to be sympathetic. But the wheelchair does not increase my disability. It decreases it. My increasing problems controlling my limbs are trivial to the exhaustion and cognative difficulties. But people understand a wheelchair. They don’t understand how stress can trigger trouble breathing or trouble communicating. And what they don’t understand they attack or ignore or ridicule. Not everyone reacts this way, but many do. And those who are kind and those who are cruel often don’t fit any expected stereotypes.

As to consciousness raising. It sounds needed. Not just from your story, but from others I’ve heard here. It sounds as if two main truths need to be taught. 1)Everyone deserves a basic level of respect, even those who we dislike, mistrust or don’t understand. 2)Being different, or odd or not what we expect does not make someone bad or wrong or unworthy. Most people here probably understand this in their heads. The key is to understand it in our hearts. (Another key is to realize that no matter how well we thing we accept these truths, we each have our own, often hidden unrealized, prejudices that keep us from reacting properly at times. If we accept this we can learn after a mistake.)

Once these basic truthes and not just known but believed, then learning that some sisters see certain things as sexist or demeaning or threatening is more likely to make a difference. And only after believng these truths will one start to understand that an illness or disability can not be judged by appearances an does not affect ones worth. And that illness, disability, oppression, hardship are no excuse to give someone less curtesy and respect. In fact they increase a persons need to be treated with curtesy and respect. (I would say with kindness but too may would take that to mean pity, which does not go well with respect.)

Understanding these truths also make it possible for those who have been hurt or offended to talk with and accept those who don’t understand how or why what they did or said was hurtfull or offensive.

Sister,

It is unfortunate these lowly few you have encountered. The rainbow, as is life, is what you make of it. During your time of despair did you give in to the Babylon ways or have you been tolerant, and forgiving, and did you make the rainbow land wherever you were? It looks to me that this may be an excellent time for you to be the teacher rather than the victim.

You don’t sound like a quitter to me.

We all love you sister some just don’t know how to show it.

These are the words of,
Yellowhand

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