Miranda, Raven

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Miranda, Raven – part 2

Miranda, Raven here
Gee. I took Warner Dragon's remarks to mean that (a) head lice was a metaphor for a CONDITION that a writer/speaker might have, and that would, consequently, distort behavior/thinking as presented in words. Thus, though, the tastefulness of such an image is questionable--and that part of it is none of my business--it is NOT NAME CALLING, though as vivid as this "vile names" idea. Further a lice image just resonates with some earlier thread about head lice, which is, I'm sure, the thread Warner meant to incorperate in his remarks. Having not discussed this with WD but having just read it here on my own the same as anyone, I'm totally working from what *I* read. I think the aphoristic separation point would be "Condemn the action, not the person"--though it is sad to see ya'll jumping that and jumping out to attack WD. It is the sort of gratuitous attacking WD was writing of to begin with, ironically enough. Was *I* gone too long? You had to have a scapegoat? This address sucking more than its share of idiot wind? Some sort of vortex? Leave my vacuum alone. Take the log out of yer own damn vacant self. Please. I'm working on the splinter in my own "I" just as hard as ever can be. And, certainly, why go after WD? (b) I think the "idiot wind" Warner cites would be the generalized idiocy that emits from every, non-transcendant human being by definition in some quantity and quality or the other. As in when Bobby Dylan writes: "We're all idiots babe" in the song of the same name. Yes! You! I! Everyone engages in the idiot wind problem that predates the chemical polution of the earth's atmosphere. "Idiot wind" is a continuous, baseline, archetypal referent point in this house's vocabulary. It would scarcely be saved up and wasted on one particular poster on agr however delicious to any overweening ego appetite that may be. Again: "head lice" and "idiot wind" describe common conditions. They are not naming individuals, but rather descriptors of behaviors.

While I'm at it here, let me tell you a few things about Warner. First off, he and I are not partners--that is, in no way a couple. He is not my significant other. He's significant to me as a human being; but he is not my other--nor am I his. (Yer gonna have ta go back for a Dick-and-Jane refresher course if you think WD and I think very much alike or let alone are the same cyber entity!!!!) Warner is my landlord to whom I pay rent. I am single. Warner and I have been friends for 15 years. My son, who was six years old, was attacked with a broken car radio antenae. Because I called the police instead of telling the apartment managers--(of all bizarre things!--they were these incredibly backward, self-important folks), I was being evicted with my two children. Warner took my case without taking any fees either up front or afterward, won and won damages for my son. He took only his court filing costs and so forth AFTER the case was won! He does this sort of thing for a lot of people. And most of the rest of his practice is made up of cases the fees for which are slashed to the bone. I bet he hasn't got one client who pays him anything near the going rate for a lawyer of his experience. He drives me wild trying to talk each and every client out of whatever it is they want to do. (Even divorces and custody cases he recommends "do it yerself". And criminal he reminds and reminds about public defenders.) He's a very special person. I always bill him as the last honest lawyer in california--(apologies to any other rainbow attorney ca. type I've not met). Warner is a long-time member of many community action and left wing political groups, often holding office. He is a much-admired, sought out mediator, arbiter, focalizer. IN FIFTEEN YEARS, I HAVE NEVER KNOWN WARNER TO CALL ANYBODY ANY NAME. To act as though his post were name calling of some sort is a ridiculous, mal intended strain.

And, as I tried to put forth in an Angie post several weeks ago, I like the word dialectics over argue. The greeks said the purpose of dialogue/discourse/intellectual argument was dialectics. Dialectics are more than blah blah, yadda yadda, binary, i say white you say black stuff. Dialectics are words and hearts and spirits in dialogue rising in spiral to heaven. This was behind the Socratic ideal. More than logic, reason, as in "come let us reason together" it is a business that requires not competitive, binary, hierarchal intentions and attitudes which arise from chakra 1-3, but is done with love--chakra 4 and above. And it also goes back to the goddess, one of whose geometric symbols, along with the circle, was the spiral. The snakes on the caduceus were the goddess snakes (double helix of dialectics compassion/ knowledge), stolen when the RCChurch killed the witches and invented the savagery of western medicine

Last: I seriously doubt Warner was referring to any one person in his post that originated this thread. If you look without bias at his post, you will see he cited a quotation from a post. That he credited the post does not mean that he is attacking that person. I think he was, again, speaking of the generic idiot wind. That idiot wind picks apart any thing constructive. It is a destructive force. It looks for a supposed cleavage point in every word or idea or sentence or phrase. It concerns itself with the particular; it has no respect or love, it does not maintain context or the larger picture. But the idiot wind appears to have an authority because it caters to, depends upon the most conservative, fearful biases of people. The Idiot Wind has materialistic power because it panders to the lowest common denominator--usually respondant to the 1-3 chakras as I say. These blunter intentions mock and destroy anything finer than themselves, by mangling common language that might bespeak these finer things over into more brute definitions of these same words. It is called premature concretization. An attack on one little component of a well-intentioned email that comes from the heart can destroy that attempt to communicate and dialogue until that email appears to have been some attempt to be destructive; which destruction, in fact, is the desire of the attacker. If readers and posters on agr--or anywhere--cannot learn the difference between the speaker and what is spoken, than the level of communication remains very, very low indeed. Adult community communication relies upon being able to separate ideas from people. If agr is reduced to this sort of wild dog pack feeding frenzy, then the idiot wind has worked its toxic magic!

Miranda, Raven

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Warner S. Bloomberg wrote:

> Gee. I took Warner Dragon's remarks to mean that (a) head lice was a metaphor for a CONDITION that a writer/speaker might have, and that would, consequently, distort behavior/thinking as presented in words. Thus, though, the tastefulness of such an image is questionable--and that part of it is none of my business--it is NOT NAME CALLING, though as vivid as this "vile names" idea

<snip>

Maybe I'm shallow or just easily amused but I just thought the "vile names" quote was funny and all too true too often. :)

Twoina Hager

Hello, Miranda Raven, from Andrea-Zephyr

Among other comments, you, Miranda Raven, just said,

<<big snip>>

> Take the log out of yer own damn vacant self

and you, Miranda Raven, also just said,

<<big snip>>

> If agr is reduced to this sort of wild dog pack feeding frenzy, then the idiot wind has worked its toxic magic!

Miranda Raven, your extreme negativity may be highly acceptable in your household, but not in ours. I guess you feel people should be happy to be called "damn vacant self" by you. And you feel that anyone disagreeing with you or your friends is headed for a "wild dog pack feeding frenzy". My, my. The sad part is that you assume that others lack depth, intelligence, understanding, that these qualities are somehow reserved for you and a few select others. The reality is that many, many people have depth, intelligence, and understanding, and many of us are working daily in our lives to uplift people, not tear them down. Well, due to your negativity, I'm hitting the delete button from now on whenever I see posts coming from you. I should've made that decision the first time you yelled the word "Motherfucker" in one of your early MatriFOCAL posts, but sometimes I'm slow to act, and you did have some good points in some of your posts. But the hatred leaking out of you is inappropriate: why call people "damn vacant self"? why think of anyone posting to agr in terms of "wild dog pack feeding frenzy"? why think of our disagreements with you or Warner as "attacks"? For most people, it is a pleasure to discuss, learn, agree or disagree, it is a dynamic interaction with others. To think in terms of attack is to lose all this pleasure; and to assume that you have more to teach than other people do is to miss the enjoyment of learning from others. You do not have more to teach than others; you have different things to teach; we all have experienced many things in life, we all have much to teach. So, adios to Miranda Raven from Andrea-Zephyr

> Maybe I'm shallow or just easily amused but I just thought the "vile names" quote was funny and all too true too often. :)
>Twoina Hager

i had a deep thought once - - i almost drowned getting it : D

i enjoy souls who have come to a place where they can get across their point of view in a simple way ( without confusion )

like an olympic gymnast - - - making it seem so simple an easy

but hey that's me and others of like mind

some enjoy seeing things in a compex manner, dabbling in endless details - -- seeing how many 3 - 4 - 5 or more syllable words they can come up with and if that brings enjoyment - - - let the good times roll - - -

the way i see it is - - some people click with each other some don't.

live and let live

out of sight out of mind

"Anyone can make things bigger, more complex. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
- ???

"The sqeaking wheel doesn't always get the grease. Sometimes it gets replaced."
- ???

peace

Dan

p.s. i'm not directing these thoughts at any one person
- - just a few thoughts - - thanks

Dude! I ever always did find yer f. child moniker specious! “motherfucker” is a very special term I learned as a true flower child. Mungst the many, many other lessons I learnt in the haight in the love/hate summers ('67& '68 respectively) and the other seasons framing them, is the absolute linguistic gumboid excellence of the word motherfucker from the black brothers and sisters. You can use it as almost any part of speech. Since I even throw out my own posts--(so why should I expect less or other than I myself do? Ooh! Ooh! yer gonna not read me? I'm shaking in my Beatle and/or Go Go boots! I mean, why read 'em? You don't understand them anyway.)--I have no record of specificity. I do know for a fact that I capitalized MOTHERFUCKER in a stream of capitalized words because of a rather disgusting painful antisemitic attack I had just weathered from the bigotted keyboard of Loren, and, rather than counter attack, I sort of did some loud clowning in big language. (You sure cannot please everyone!) I think I said something about myself like “my motherfucking ass”. SO! SO? How are you a “Flower Child”? After all, *I* am the scowling teenager in the 1968 Brittanica Year Book article about flower children under the Haight-Ashbury sign. Who are you? Probably a perfectly fine rainbow who just needs some remedial reading and writing courses, but who is otherwise a lovely hippie. Full of hate am I? Sometimes. More often full of love. The image was “Don't try to remove the splinter from your neighbor's eye before you take the plank out of your own.” I combined it with idiot wind parlance. This is bad? Misenterpre-ting Warner's post and censoring my language (as well as misconstruing my words) are hardly Flower Child type charms. I work real hard at not judging, though. Fo' instance, FC: don't make you bad just because you cannot understand what has been said to you. Just makes you an s.o.l. m'fucker. But you miss ring tailed motherfucker status by many a mile. But also you ain't flowery and you ain't childlike. A true flower child would know about social injustice. About being a rainbow warrior. A real flower child would reserve judgement until they had a way to understand what was going on. Besides. I'm coming down with my first cold in four years. I don't like it and I don't like self righteousness. It is especially repugnant in hippies. So na na na na na. <R>

WSB3A...@aol.com wrote:

> This address sucking more than its share of idiot wind? Some sort of vortex? Leave my vacuum alone. Take the log out of yer own damn vacant self. Please. I'm working on the splinter in my own "I" just as hard as ever can be. And, certainly, why go after WD? (b) I think the "idiot wind" Warner cites would be the generalized idiocy that emits from every, non-transcendant human being by definition in some quantity and quality or the other. As in when Bobby Dylan writes: "We're all idiots babe" in the song of the same name. Yes! You! I! Everyone engages in the idiot wind problem that predates the chemical polution of the earth's atmosphere. "Idiot wind" is a continuous, baseline, archetypal referent point in this house's vocabulary. It would scarcely be saved up and wasted on one particular poster on agr however delicious to any overweening ego appetite that may be. Again: "head lice" and "idiot wind" describe common conditions. They are not naming individuals, but rather descriptors of behaviors.

Idiot Wind

Someone's got it in for me...
They're planting stories in the Press.
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out quick -
When they will, I can only guess

They say I shoot a man named Gray,
And took his wife to Italy;
She inherited a million bucks
And when she died it came to me...
I can't help it if I'm lucky

People see me all the time -
And they just can't remember how to act.
Their minds are filled with big ideas -
Images and distorted facts

Even you, yesterday,
You had to ask me “Where it was at?”
I couldn't believe after all these years
You didn't know me any better than that,
Sweet Lady

Idiot Wind -
Blowing every time you move your mouth.
Blowing down the back roads heading south

Idiot Wind -
Blowing every time you move your teeth
You're an Idiot Babe,
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe

I ran into the fortune teller,
Who said beware of lightning that might strike”
I haven't known peace and quiet
For so long I can't remember what it's like

There's a lone Soldier on a cross;
Smoke pooring out of a box car door.
You didn't know it;
You didn't think it could be done
In the final end he won the war -
After losing every battle

I woke up on the roadside
Daydreaming about the way things sometimes are.
Visions of your chesnut mare,
Shoot through my head
And are making me see stars

You hurt the ones that I love best,
And cover up the true with lies.
One day you'll be in the ditch -
Flies buzzin' around your eyes -
Blood on your saddle

Idiot Wind -
Blowing through the flowers on your tomb.
Blowing through the curtains in your room

Idiot Wind -
Blowing everytime you move your teeth
You're an Idiot Babe,
It's a wonder that you still know how to Breathe

It was gravity which pulled us down,
And destiny which broke us apart.
You tamed the lion in my cage -
But it just wasn't enough to change my heart

Now everything's a little upside down -
As a matter of fact the wheels have stopped.
What's good is bad, what's bad is good.
You'll find out when you reach the top
You're on the bottom

I noticed at this cerimony
Your corrupt ways had finally made you blind.
I can't remember your face any more -
Your mouth is changed
Your eyes don't look into mine

The priest wore black on the seventh day
And sat stone faced while the building burned.
I waited for you on the running boards
Near the cypress tree,
While the springtime turned
Slowy into autumn

Idiot Wind -
Blowing like a circle around my skull.
From the Grand Coolee Dam to the Capitol

Idiot Wind
Blowing every time you move your teeth
You're an Idiot Babe,
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe

I can't feel you any more -
I can't even touch the books you've read.
Every time I crawl past your door,
I've been wishing I've been somebody else instead

Down the highway,
Down the tracks,
Down the road to ecstacy;
I followed you beneath the stars,
Haunted by your memory
And all your raging glory

I've been double crossed now
For the very last time -
And now I'm finally free

I've kissed good-bye the howling beast
On the borderline which separated
You from me

You'll never know the hurt I suffered,
Nor the pain I rise above.
And I'll never know the same about you;
Your holiness or your kind of love,
And it makes me feel so sorry

Idiot Wind -
Blowing through the buttons of our coats.
Blowing through the letters that we wrote.
Idiot Wind -
Howling through the dust upon our shelves.
We're Idiots
It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves

Hey, babycakes, maybe you need to get a second name too, like I and that other La. Hey, only two more days of February left! The robins have been out again in Lawrence KS for about a week. We're hearing honking overhead, and V's of geese going northwest or ~east (never really north). I wonder if those dumb forsythia are gonna bloom into a freeze again. But it's gonna happen again. I'm gathering increasing amounts of evidence. C'mon Aries!!! Is your gypsy house ever moseying thru Kansas?

(yes, this is one.)
- Bumblebee Bill

Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

> I work real hard at not judging,
> <R>

it's not working - - might consider a different path

> Dude! I ever always did find yer f. child moniker specious!
> why read 'em? You don't understand them anyway.
> bigotted keyboard of Loren,
> needs some remedial reading and writing courses,
> makes you an s.o.l. m'fucker
> But also you ain't flowery and you ain't childlike

you speak of love but you don't seem to act out of love

i would say more but the odds are it would be taken apart and attacked - - probably just like this one

peace
Dan

p. s. the message came from a woman not a dude - - (Andrea-Zephyr)

In a message dated 98-02-26 10:24:00 EST, you write: His Butterfly Billness wrote:

> Hey, babycakes, maybe you need to get a second name too, like I and that other La. ...
> Is your gypsy house ever moseying thru Kansas? (yes, this is one.)

I, Miranda, Raven reply:
Gosh. Ever since my total favorite left wing radio talk show host said her husband called her babycakes, I've wanted some guy to call me babycakes. [All manner of docile hormones exude through tissues. Sun rises. Stars twinkle. Blossoms think about being that much prettier when they appear. Deep toxic breaths release from bones on out.] So much nicer than feminazi, elitest kike bitch intelligentsia, racist, sexist etc, etc, etc that I've been tagged in this wretched month. Yes. I've taken some counter punches--when people have come after me! But for the most part laid low and kept to issues.&&&&&& Yes. Gypsy House. Um. In between storms which have been back to back, I have spent thirty-days in bits crawling with power chords through mud and water under the truck rails/gypsy house making cuts here and there so the house, which was designed for a '54 Dodge, now fits a '71 GMC. (GMC rails wider and higher. Tarping is futile because the ground of a piece has been liquid.) Today is the day! The bolts go in and I drive it around the block! OH BOY! Today the neighborhood! Next month the nation! Yes. I will come to kansas. Thankyou, Bill

Love, Light, La, Peace, and Babycakes, Miranda, Raven

Dan wrote:

> > I work real hard at not judging,
> > <R>
> it's not working - - might consider a different path
> you speak of love but you don't seem to act out of love
> i would say more but the odds are it would be taken apart and attacked - - probably just like this one

I, Miranda, Raven say: Yes! That post ffleur kinder, was illadvised. Backfired satire that just came out straight up stupid and unkind. No arguement. I regret it. But, truly, Dan, it is not a mathematical process. Odds have little to do with it. If you have something to say and can logically, without antipathy say it, I can take criticism. It is the wholesale, unthought verbal attacks that wear me out here. Do you see the list of names I've been called? And, yes, as a Jew I have never heard or read in a personal situation such a rabid, antisemitic attack as Loren spewed in my 48 years. It hurt me! That isn't judgemental on my part. It is a fact. And it is not judgmental to speak of literacy levels. Judgmentalism is a matter of morality. When Jesus said “Judge not least ye be judged,” what was at issue were mortal sins to do with the ten commandments. Put at a gross simple level, it has to do with whether someone is BAD or GOOD. To say someone is an s.o.l. motherfucker is a tweek. The motherfucker thing just defies my understanding! I've never fucked a mother, but I should think it's a lovely thing?!?! Look, Flower Child told me I'm a hatefilled person because I said mother fucker. So I was playing with it. And? In my vocabulary, this is just not a pejoritive. Then *of course* I go on to posture judgmentalistic stuff after I said I try not to judge. I'm worn out with all the convolutions of sarcasm, satire, humor, blatant attacks, genuine maliciousness posturing as humor etc. and being the butt of so much of it. Look. It's a tough audience. Many educational levels, ages, life experiences, mental conditions. As for “you speak of love but you don't seem to act out of love”....be careful! THAT is judging. That post did not come out of love. But any other you might care to point out does indeed come out of love. This one included! I Love You, Dan! Miranda, Raven

In a message dated 98-02-27 03:13:48 EST, you write:

> I'm worn out with all the convolutions of sarcasm, satire, humor, blatant attacks, genuine maliciousness posturing as humor etc. and being the butt of so much of it. Look. It's a tough audience

hey babycakes (you really like that? or were you just kidding? doesn't seem to fit the beautiful sister who came out of the cold foggy rain of an oregon thanksgiving and shared a little warmth with mark and i as we froze our asses off cooking in the barn) just want to say i enjoy whatever you write and like it best when you shoot from the hip-- as i've said before “say what you think and let the chips fall where they may”. but tell me the important news, how was your test drive?----------------s

In a message dated 98-02-27 11:00:16 EST, you write:

> hey babycakes (you really like that? or were you just kidding? ...
> but tell me the important news, how was your test drive?----------------s

I, Miranda, Raven say: Thank you, you darling old hippy hunk you! I needed that more than you’ll ever know. Yer right: Joke ‘em if they can’t take a fuck!. Yesterday was wretched--in a sort of very funny-this-can’t-be-the- life-of-Job-I-still-have-a-Corona-and-two-Oreos-left-sort of fashion. My brand new dremel broke. Just as I was about to lower the gh that last few inches I had just cut, it slipped off the rain slick jack stands into a sort of “Houston, we have a problem” repose. Warner--a la that marvelous brute strength yous guys got--got it back on track. So there weren’t any problems left except broken tools, pouring rain that wasn’t forecasted and pms. So I remain until this new batch of daylight that has cropped up out of the sun the woman-in-the-driveway. Several months before Warner bought this house in 1984, a Korean fellow who was renting it immolated himself in the driveway. Full ceremonial gowns and a can of gas. I’ve done exorcisms and I chat with angry ghoste dude, but he does play havoc.... Warner didn’t believe until he had a run in with him last year. I never did believe in ghostes either till this guy. In the last three weeks, I’ve had a twelve hour old jig saw break, a new three ton floor jack, and now the new dremel I had used less than four hours. I’ve raised that gh literally 150 times in the last 6 weeks and never had the smallest slip...Yes. Baby Cakes is so sweet and sexy! Love you s! I’ll get there. I’ll get on here the minute I get out of the driveway with ql and the gh. Miranda, Raven

In a message dated 98-02-27 12:20:10 EST, you write:

> Love you s! I’ll get there. I’ll get on here the minute I get out of the driveway with ql and the gh.

love you too and will be waiting to hear that all your hard work is over and the ship is afloat-- had a good run to tucson with my new rig but broke the bolt at block that holds on the alternator so will have to pull the radiator and air conditioning compressor just to tap it out-- seems like it’s always some little thing that turns into a real pain in the-----------------s

Sailor, you just passed all my tests with that one. I’ve seen your true colors. You are now a genuine BRO from now on, in seculae seculorum, even when I’m arguing with you the next time about taking my truck down main trail. Ain’t gonna fool me NO MORE with your growlin’.

- Butterfly Bill

Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

In article <106b6af9.34f4e79c.alt.gathering.rainbow@aol.com>, WSB3A...@aol.com writes:

> Just makes you an s.o.l. m'fucker. But you miss ring tailed motherfucker status by many a mile

Ooooh, I just got to know what an s.o.l. is , and what the rest of the motherfucker lexicon means. Please, please, before you hit the soggy road, do tell! ;^}

Montana Crystal

BoomBdBoom wrote:

> Ooooh, I just got to know what an s.o.l. is , and what the rest of the motherfucker lexicon means. Please, please, before you hit the soggy road, do tell! ;^}

> Montana Crystal

sol is “shit outta luck” but I'm curious about the “ring-tailed” part yours in etymology,

Marc

sol is shit out of luck. (hmm. and now that I look at that, what the heck does it mean? probably morew interesting than on the surface. Never have used the expression till the other day. Just had it along with far, far too much else rattling around in the brain bone.) MOTHERFUCKER is actually a tweek on christianity. I think it is from the Irish, but perhaps by way of Africa, too, and found its fondest vocalizers in black American slaves, at any rate. It is an expression of disbelief and merriment by the old ones that Mary was a virgin. I like it because it is so vile and yet a total joke and it appeals to my Turrets. I used to use it two out of five words. ma'a'fugha is a variant. (Very soft g unless yer really really pissed.) Ring tail mother fucker is an expression my brother in law Cisco Klock made up. It was an amalgam of terms from his cowboy novels (sic: you ringtailed pole cat you!) and the mf we so proudly picked up from our drummer compatriots on hippy hill and the pimps on Eddy Street in the Tender Loin who regularly wanted to enroll me in their crash course. Sigh. Those were the days! How shouting motherfucker could label me hatefilled....I just think it is hilarious....It's like Quicks Draw McGraw to me. Or Beauregard Chicken. Or this adorable little blonde teenybopper on Haight Street in some time warp calling everyone-- cops, druggies, Jerry Garcia, Flower Children-- anyone Mother Fucker! I mean, we all said, “Hi, Motherfucker” when we saw each other. I think, though I'm maybe not remembering, that motherfucker contracted into fuck this that and the other then disappeared. When I get upset it all comes back. And I like it! It helps me get rid of a lot of this hatred I'm so full of? (Oh am I to be denied what little therapy I can find? Oh FUCK!) Love you there Crystal! We're doing peace on agr these days! Ya like it so far? <R>

In <4795d87.34f68beb.alt.gathering.rainbow@aol.com>> WSB3A...@aol.com (WSB3ATTYCA) writes:

<snip>
> Or Beauregard Chicken
<snip>

Do you mean Foghorn Leghorn?

In a message dated 98-02-27 09:13:44 EST, you write:

> Or Beauregard Chicken
<snip>
> Do you mean Foghorn Leghorn?

Yes. In some of the older cartoons he was Beauregard Rooster. He's my hero by any name. I used to be the little chicken hawk when I was younger. The older I get though, I'm a Mrs. Foghorn type elderly hippy chick (en). But I keep my Raven delusions... Miranda, Raven

WSB3ATTYCA wrote:

> sol is shit out of luck. (hmm. and now that I look at that, what the heck does it mean?

growing up in TX (where i heard the phrase more than once) it was used as the extreme version of bein' outta luck. example- flat tire- no spare ----outta luck flat tire- no spare and a DPS cop pullin up as you remember you let yr insurance lapse is shit outta luck..

love the ring tailed version though

good cussin is an art form..

<R> writes;

> It helps me get rid of a lot of this hatred I'm so full of? (Oh am I to be denied what little therapy I can find? Oh FUCK!)

Confession is good for the soul...but making a.g.r. your dumping ground is hardly therapy....Love,James

http://www.cataholic.com/james If you can not answer a person's assertion,discourse or rambling monologue all is not lost;you can still call people vile names...heehee

WSB3ATTYCA wrote:

> sol is shit out of luck. (hmm. and now that I look at that, what the heck does it mean?

Dear <R>
Your Gemini-esque spew of words w/out a pause to breathe was (Ithought) getting to be just a little too much. Now I'm wondering why you use the “F” word so much. I gotta admit, I don't read your posts completely through, so I'm not really responding to them, per se. I'm just curious why you feel the necessity to use your creative energies in such a stagnant fashion

You write that you are full of hatred....that's the one thing that stands out, for me, in this post

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Miranda}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

extending a hearthand, avesi

In article <4795d87.34f68beb.alt.gathering.rainbow@aol.com>, WSB3A...@aol.com (WSB3ATTYCA) writes:

> Love you there Crystal! We're doing peace on agr these days! Ya like it so far?

Gotta admit, this is my favorite effort so far. A good story that gave me some insight into both you and the words

Now if the guys can put down the flame throwers for a minute and come up with something similar...

(ducking and flinching as I sign my name)
Montana Crystal

In article <34F89DCA.3723.alt.gathering.rainbow@earthlink.net>, krit...@earthlink.net (Ave Guenthner) writes:

> You write that you are full of hatred....that's the one thing that stands out, for me, in this post
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Miranda}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
> extending a hearthand, avesi

Wow, and I thought that “full of hatred” stuff was tonge in cheek. But then, I often have trouble understanding <R>'s words. Still. I thought it was a nice post.

Montana Crystal

Http://members.aol.com/BoomBdBoom/drums.html for musical instruments
Laughter is the best medicine for a long and happy life
He who laughs............lasts

A) I might buy, barter for, borrow, find, be given, or even make a drum. And all people are drummers in one sense or more, being part of the rhythms of the universe. So bop bop a bam bam, I might go over to a drum circle and join in the drumming. But I sure as hell wouldn't ever pick out one of the best drummers in the family and start telling him or her how to drum. Well same as any craft in the family. Some are drummers, capitol D. Some are herbalists, capitol H. I can write. I sure as fuck can write! Capitol W. You just came at me, “bob”, from the gitgo after Loren's attack, telling me what and how to write. I cannot abide it off of no one. I told you don't read me. But you persisted. And kept on telling me what and how to write

B) Yes. A hand full of folks, as yourself, have not liked--or have not understood, is the actual case, I believe--my writings about matrifocal, egalitarian, partnership cultures. That does not bother me except that when I open a post with the subject header of one of these, it would be more invigorating and healthy to have dialogue on the subject matter rather than self conscious, defensive attacks on me. So, again, why then read my writing? This is what escapes me. Why be tormented and open my posts? The subjects are clearly marked

Secondly, I am not writing for people who do not want to read what I have to say. I am not writing to be competitive. I'm not writing to be admired. I am writing to inform. To discuss. To break into new territory of thought and social speculation. It is not in some good-bad, right-wrong realm. This is material that I have searched out and researched over decades. Moreover, it is material that has been given me by a series of inexplicable happenstances, not being the sort of thing I have typically pursued. Also, I may not even be writing for anyone now on agr. I may not even be writing for anyone alive. Our generation and the next may not get this stuff about sharing. But the one after that, my grandson's generation might. They may need what I have written here. My job is to keep on writing. My job is to not be bothered by the inability of a few very vocal, very easily disturbed people to understand that what is being said has nothing to do with attacking men. That it has everything to do with loving men--and women

C) It has become fashionable in recent years to blame the victim for crimes. Because you and a few others are upset by what I write, then it is my fault, supposedly, that you and they entirely misconstrue my words. (I don't mean I'm a victim. I'm just using the paradigm. The archetypal paradigm is blaming the sidewalk for gravity.) I bent over backwards saying things as many ways as I could think of to express the awesomely wonderful stuff I have been talking about and that it has nothing to do with feminism, male bashing, sexism, divisiveness etc. That is all I can do. It is new stuff. It is radical. All I can do is present it. That people throw themselves on it like it's a grenade when in fact it is mana is not a failing of mine, however it may seem to a mind practiced in the lessor arts such as cause and effect. If I offer the moon and any number of people call it any number of things like apricots or wire hangers it is still the moon

D) Yes. So a handful of people vocally protest my work. On the other hand, can you guess how many lurkers I get private posts from saying: “You go, Raven! I used to post on agr but people jump on everything that's a little bit different. I can't stand up to them the way you do, so I've been a lurker for years. Glad to see someone hold their own! Be strong, rainbow warior!” A couple a month I get like that. There've been some 18 or twenty-one such emails. I write for them maybe

E) All in all these are first amendment issues. There are also boundary issues here. (Psycho-social interaction issues.) But freedom of speech is the most important, especially as this is strictly a written medium. Boundaries do play into it. There are issues of taste and sensibility. But feelings? It's a butcher shop! Like why tell me Zephyre is not reading my posts? I've already been aprized of this and it hurts my feelings. So another twist of the knife? But I'll take on real knives to the death before I give up the right to speak freely. And up to the point last night of writing ffleur kinder, there's nothing I've said that wasn't meant in the best humour or otherwise out of love. Even then, that isn't so bad. I'm just tired after fending off attacks from Loren til now. I think people are on a trip trying to pick fault. I said nothing to offend Flower Child before that. I wasn't even talking to FC! I was talking generally to people who were going after warner for nothing at all. I've been trying, ineffectually, to get people to stop attacking me! To stop attacking, period. Don't EVEN bother trying to tell me what I've read or what I understand, “bob”. I repeat: Speak from YOUR viewpoint! Don't tell me about what I know or don't

F) Glass houses, “bob”. Free speech away! Criticize what you don't understand! But don't be surprized when someone finally loses patience as I did with you. Your writing is just fine of course, and I'm sorry to have impugned it. I swatted you to give you a taste of having my writing criticized. Little more eye for an eye than I usually dabble in. But as elsewhere I actually touch down only very lightly compared to what might be. Observe, if you haven't, for instance, that I might have gone on; in fact had 5 & 6 of bob thread in the chute. But dumped them and wrote valentines poem. Really, 'bob”, I don't care what of my writing you like and what you don't. I went to college for eight and a half years. I gave up caring one way or the other what people like or don't way before that was over. That is what that very arduous training is about. My ego isn't in any of what I do here. Take what you need and leave the rest. But your critique is not needed--nor wanted! Write about yourself, please. Editing others is not peaceful. It certainly isn't rainbow! Be peaceful and loving! I'll extend the same to you. Don't need fans! Love, Miranda, Raven

hi,

wind blows:
> I can write. I sure as fuck can write! Capitol W

Wind

> I swatted you to give you a taste of having my writing > criticized. Little more eye for an eye than I usually dabble in. But as elsewhere I actually touch down only very lightly compared to what might be

with the grace of an elephant dump

> Observe, if you haven't, for instance, that I might have gone on; in fact had 5 & 6 of bob thread in the chute. But dumped them and wrote valentines poem

that was kind? idiot Wind (capital W)

> Really, 'bob”, I don't care what of my writing you like and what you don't. I went to college for eight and a half years

humm, most folks graduate from community college in two years

> I gave up caring one way or the other what people like or don't way before that was over

thats too bad. i still care. and when you shit all over the board with your inflated self esteem, and you low esteem for others-

“You hurt the ones that i love best
and cover up the true with lies.”
idiot wind

> That is what that very arduous training is about. My ego isn't in any of what I do here

uh huh

> I think people are on a trip trying to pick fault. I said nothing to offend Flower Child before that. I wasn't even talking to FC! I was talking generally to people who were going after warner for nothing at all. I've been trying, ineffectually, to get people to stop attacking me!

yeh, you and ken starr. raving about your searches for Truth, and people being mean to you

“bob”

> They say I shot a man named Gray,
> And took his wife to Italy;
> She inherited a million bucks
> And when she died it came to me. . .
> I can't help it if I'm lucky

You and me both ,brother......Love,James

http://www.cataholic.com/james If you can not answer a person's assertion, discourse or rambling monologue all is not lost; you can still call people vile names...heehee

<R> writes;

> I swatted you to give you a taste of having my writing criticized. Little more eye for an eye than I usually dabble in. But as elsewhere I actually touch down only very lightly compared to what might be

Who's afraid of the big bad wolf,the big bad wolf,the big bad wolf...?
Watch it there partner....she's got looks that kill.....Love,James

http://www.cataholic.com/james If you can not answer a person's assertion, discourse or rambling monologue all is not lost; you can still call people vile names...heehee

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